[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:02] NC: Does your printing need some passion?
[0:00:05] DD: Your design some dynamic dimension?
[0:00:08] DC: Are you stuck in a CMYK rut?
[0:00:11] DD: I’m David Drucker, founder and CEO of highresolution printing and packaging.
[0:00:16] NT: I’m Noel Tocci, founder of Tocci Made Bespoke Print Consulting.
[0:00:20] DC: And I’m Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse. Welcome to Making It with Print, the podcast that takes a deep dive into the conception, creation, and production of amazing printed products.
[0:00:34] DD: If you can dream it –
[0:00:35] NT: – you can make it.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:38] DC: Hey everybody, welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador, and it has been so long that I almost forgot what podcast I was on, but it is the Making It with Print podcast. And I am so happy to once again be speaking with David Drucker from High Resolution Printing and Packaging, and Noel Tocci from TocciMade. Hello, gentlemen. Hello, Noel.
[0:01:03] NT: Hello, Deborah. How are you? And hi, David.
[0:01:06] DD: Hey. How is everybody doing? It’s great to be able to see each other and sit down with you together and share some info together.
[0:01:13] DC: Excellent. The last event I was at was – well, it was at Printing United that I had the portable radio station with me, and we were walking around, and people recognized me as they often do. But they specifically mentioned that they love listening to this podcast. Good job everybody. They find your perspective very unique because you are printers, and print customers, and consultants, and brokers at the same time. They like your perspective, which is great because today is definitely a conversation about perspective.
Technology is transforming the world and the printing industry at a pace that we have really never experienced before. There’s new tools, there’s new expectations, not just from customers, but from printers and equipment, and from the equipment manufacturers and their suppliers. And there’s new ways of working that reshape how print gets produced, sold, and valued in the world.
So, I would describe this as another critical moment for print businesses to examine their growth strategy and the choices that are going to shape their business future. And that is near-term and long-term.
Noel and David, as I mentioned, have a unique vantage point for this discussion as they work with printers, and they are print customers, and they work with print customers, and they source printing partners. And sometimes they are their primary customers from the jobs that they’re running.
Gentlemen, today we are going to play one of my favorite games, which is called pick one, which means that there is not both work. No it depends. And even though those are valid responses, this is a chance to pick a side and explain your position. And we discussed this a little before we started recording.
And while it is 100% true that the answer could be both, the answer certainly could be it depends. But as David and Noel are weighing those options in their head, they are going to share their highest thought on them. They’re going to pick one, but we can assume there could be some both or it depends there.
So, the first question I asked in my LinkedIn group, and it had almost 8,000 views and definitely a clear winner, which I will see where you guys fall. Here we go. If AI starts choosing paper for print projects, is that good for print or bad for print? David?
[0:04:10] DD: Yeah, I thought about this as far as – I’m going to back up. I had seen a presentation, and the presentation was a bottle designer. And the bottle designer was given the task of creating a bottle that is frosted, has a certain type of label to it, a certain shape to it. And they wound up using AI and came up with six designs. But those six designs were only used for a point of reference to discuss with the client a direction. Here’s an idea. Here’s an idea. Here’s an idea. Not to take that idea and to manufacture it, but just as a point of a starting a conversation.
My feeling of AI is that it is exactly that. It’s a point of being able to start a conversation. So, let’s talk about paper. We have paper. I’m looking for different blues in paper, different color blues, different weights in blues. And if I was able to put that information in there, then maybe it would help me to put the information into a funnel and come to an answer sooner than having to dig through your paper books or make phone calls to find out what color papers are.
I mean, truthfully, if I go on the web and I look at three or four different manufacturers, I’m going to get three or four different color blues that are on here, and none of them are going to be accurate enough than having a sample in my hand. But if it at least gives you some sort of direction, it gets to that end result sooner and you get to present it at that point. So, I’m not ordering six different blue papers. I’m ordering two different blue papers. More so of what I’m looking for 500 GSM of paper once you begin to look at that.
And also, the paper companies have discontinued so many different colors and lots. The palette has changed. The finishes have changed. The players have changed. So now what you’re doing is you’re narrowing the field. I would say in time that might be the way to come to an end decision faster. Let’s say I needed a blue paper for an indigo, and that can only have 130lbs cover. Well, maybe I can get that answer almost immediately.
Also, if it has the ability to say, “Well, I’m also stamping it, and I’m digitally printing it,” maybe you’ll be able to take that information even sooner and give me an answer or direction. That’s what I should say. A direction.
[0:06:49] DC: So, good or bad? Good, I’m thinking.
[0:06:52] DD: I think it’s good used the right way. It isn’t the end result. Until it’s perfected, it’s never the end result. It’s an idea.
[0:07:01] DC: Okay. I like that. Noel?
[0:07:03] NT: Mr. Mercury on glass is going to make a very strong answer. And I agree with everything David said, but I’m thinking in another way, and I think that’s good, right? Bad, I’m going to say. And I’m going to say it because for everything David said is absolutely correct. It can certainly bring you in tighter when you, and I, and David, we all know that it’s very easy to be all over the place, especially if the clients go, “I like red. I like blue.” I like this.” I like that.” You got to bring it in. And from that standpoint, I agree with him.
But the reason I’m going to say bad is because I’m thinking about all the other reasons that I choose paper. And sometimes we get, “Listen, these images are 40 years old. And I don’t care what you do or how you do it. I love this paper. But don’t tell me I chose the paper. This has to do this, this, this and this.” So it gets very important to choose stuff is part of being able to deliver what they want and they don’t know how to get. That’s why they come to people like David and I.
I don’t really want anything else in it. But I do agree. And listen to this, I said I was going to give you a definite answer, but I can definitely see where it could be helpful in the beginning stages. And it’s not to diminish what David said, because he’s right. But I just going to stick by, you know what, I’m going to go down with what I know. Or I think you could see both sides of it, right? And I thought it would be interesting to explore both sides.
[0:08:32] DC: Okay. So your answers actually fascinated me because you came at it completely different than my LinkedIn group, because you’re thinking of it as you’re specking the paper.
[0:08:44] NT: How am I going to make it right? That’s wrong. Yeah.
[0:08:47] DC: Right. No, no, no, no. But the way they came at it is I’m a customer, or a civilian who needs a business card or something, or a poster, or whatever I need. I go on the website to place an order, and it’s choosing the paper for me. And that’s a little bit of a different scenario because you guys are educated. You know what I’m saying?
[0:09:11] NT: But what criteria or metrics? Everybody’s got these apps? You pointed at a product, that product’s bad. What’s the criteria? What’s the baseline? Okay. Yeah, it’s bad according to who and why. So that’s what I get afraid of. But you’re right. I don’t know. I told you it’s a hard question.
[0:09:30] DC: It’s a hard question. David, right now, if you go into an online ordering system, usually what it says is matte paper, glossy paper. It doesn’t really go through all the finishings. It doesn’t say soft touch, aqueous. Nobody knows what that. But those people who are doing that system don’t necessarily know what that is.
In this case, the person would go in there, click a few things, and the printer would have to put in the parameters for the AI to throw out the paper to use based upon the equipment it would need to know that this thing would be printed on because AI does have the ability to make all of those calculations, but it has to be taught all of that stuff.
In that particular case, I think it’s a good thing in that case. But I can make a case why it’s a bad thing if I’m a creative or a print producer and I’m specking paper. If something comes spitting out of an estimate and someone’s decided what paper I’m using. I mean, imagine you talk to a printer and they just tell you what the cost is based upon the paper that AI says they should use on their press. I don’t know. How would you feel about that, David?
[0:10:50] DD: What it really comes down to is a person like Noel, or myself, or someone who’s educated to know the papers that they’re using, what they’re capable of doing, what the techniques are that are being printed. I mean, it’s just the idea. It’s just the impetus of let’s get started. Here’s where we’re starting. I don’t expect a designer to go in there and begin to look for papers and say, “Here, this is what I want,” because they don’t have the experience that we have to say that’s not going to work. Or why is it not going to work?
I mean, let’s say that you get an order for 500 business cards and you need 10 sheets of 26×40, or 200 sheets of 8-1/2 by 11. Well, there is a possibility that we as printers could go in there and say this is what we need. And say, “Well, this company down in Florida, they can break the carton.” And it’s the easier way to get to that. So, I’m sticking to my guns.
[0:11:47] DC: Okay. I like it. Noel, any other last comments on this one?
[0:11:51] NT: No, I think it’s very interesting, and I think you’ve covered it. I feel like I couldn’t answer it. But I don’t think there’s a clear answer. I think the more we see – and it’s going to get better. Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a great question.
[BREAK]
[0:12:05] DC: Get ready to turn up the volume on print. PrintFM is a global internet radio station dedicated exclusively to print and graphic communications, accessible around the clock in every time zone. No more searching across channels and apps. PrintFM brings relevant topical programming from Print Media Centr, Girls Who Print, and an array of industry contributors who bring their own perspectives, guests, and conversations to the mix. PrintFM also broadcasts from industry events, with live shows being scheduled throughout the year. Visit printfm.com to explore our daily programming, event schedules, and opportunities to share your content or sponsor our shows. Expert discussions, real-world insight, and industry voices are just a click away. Listen long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:13:04] DC: Welcome back, everybody. Okay, so we are in the pick one. And David went first last time. So Noel, get ready because you’re going first this time.
[0:13:11] NT: I’m ready.
[0:13:13] DC: Okay, here we go. To grow now, is it a better strategy for a print business to specialize or diversify its services?
[0:13:27] NT: I think specialize. And I think that specialize to some people means we’re only going to do one thing. What it means to me is Ray Kroc, McDonald’s. Four things 4,000 times, not 4,000 things four times. It doesn’t mean change the sign in the window. We only do copies, and we only do 10 pages at a time. That’s what people tend to think, like a laser. I think specializing can cover a lot of area, but it also makes you – like I just said, if you do 4,000 things four times, there people that are going to do them more efficiently or better than you.
When you start to – because I think about if you want to grow, if you start and be all – we’ll do that. We’ll try that. We’ll try that. It’s very hard specializing. I think I feel pretty strongly about specializing. But again, it doesn’t mean doing one thing. To me it means doing the things you do. Choosing the amount of things that you can do, like varied things, well without losing your focus, and then really just get good at it.
[0:14:32] DC: When you say do a few things well, do you mean like book making or something like that?
[0:14:37] NT: Yeah. Seven books going, and someone needs 150 business cards. They’re different things. They all take the same focus, believe it or not, especially the business cards I do happen today. I’ve got paper from Germany. I got process. I got this. I got that. It doesn’t make sense to drop what I’m doing and all the pieces on the other things. If you can manage it or you have the team to do it all. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes they’re different things, and it weakens it. I don’t want it to weaken what I’m already good at.
Yes. People think if we do a lot of things, we’ll have a lot of customers, we’ll make a lot of money, but it’s like spreading you thin, right? If you have so much of that crazy sweet cinnamon butter and those gorgeous buns, and you don’t have enough to go around. You know what I mean? I know that’s a stupid analogy, but that’s what I mean. Because I’m guilty of it. I want to do everything, and it’s not practical.
And you talked about growth. Growth comes from repetitive success in getting good at things and better at things. We all get better at things the more we do them. I mean, that doesn’t mean you can do for printer, you can do offset, you can do digital. But if you want to do as much of the work that fits the capabilities and the equipment you have and pour it on, right? Instead of just trying to be everything to everyone. Because you won’t get better at it probably and you’re talking about growth.
So then you find out when you’re really good at these bunch of things. And it can be a bunch of things depending on what you have, equipment-wise and people-wise. But you chase that kind of work, right? People think from growth. Well, there’s all this other stuff out there. Let’s try to do this, try to do that, try to do this. A little from a bunch of different buckets or what we call silos of kinds of work, right? Or verticals. We chase work in verticals. If you’re not good at everyone – you know what I mean? I just think it’s spreading too thin. Again, I’m keeping growth in mind. Get more of what you do well. And if you get that good at it, people will find you.
[0:16:42] DC: I agree. David?
[0:16:44] DD: I’m going to agree with Noel. To specialize. Now I am going to say this. The position that Noel and I are in, we work with people who are very special at what they do. That allows us, I mean, for me to write something up and have a small discussion with somebody. And let’s say it’s a business card. And these people do brochures, and these people do books, and so on and so forth, and bindery. We’re already in that position of specializing. We’re using those people who are specialized.
But the idea is that we had talked about this. And we had talked about craftsmanship quite a while ago. And if you begin to spread people thin and you do everything, then you have a press person who is not only doing this but cutting paper before and they don’t get to really focus. Even if they specialize themselves on running a certain press, you deviate from that. You pull them off and they’re not doing that.
In specializing, I just talked about this. Talking about working with printers working with other printers. If you don’t have the equipment in-house to create a relationship with another printer who you really trust that you can give that. I mean, how much work do we send out or do regular printers send out where they’re brokering it to another vendor? That is a specialty, too.
How you coordinate with those people. What you say to those people? The things that you do to direct them. But if you’re talking to a general – these are my feelings. When you’re talking to a general overall printer and they do a little bit of everything, you have to really be speaking to a production person that understands every single aspect of what needs to go on and has to have that experience.
Now I don’t think the newer people who are coming in are going to have that. In working in a specialty, your focus even if you’re new, you’re a younger person, is that equipment. Your pressman, your press people are that equipment. So it narrows everything down to near perfection as long as your chemistry, and humidity, and everything work the right way.
[0:19:04] DC: I like that a lot. I liken it to the cheesecake factory menu. Have you ever seen that thing? Anybody who’s ordering like Villefranche in there is rolling the dice on thinking that kitchen is going to be an expert at that, versus something they just dump in the fryer, or a hamburger, right?
And then I’ve been in other situations where I’m going out, Europe or something, at an event, and you go there and there’s literally five things on the menu. And you better like one of them, because that’s it. That’s what they’re offering. But those recipes are like a hundred years old. They don’t veer from them. And you’re practically guaranteed to have an amazing experience with that.
And I also just want to echo one other thing. I have recently had a whole bunch of people come and ask me if I know a book printer. So that is something that people think is a specialized area now. Not even hardcover books. They just like a book. Whatever it might be. So the print customers are thinking that a special printer does that.
Labels and packaging. There are a lot of printers that are just label and packaging printers. Maybe they have bought a small digital press for items that go along with that stuff, or they need it for proofing, whatever it is. But their main business is not to generate revenue from that digital press. They just want to have it for whatever reason that they have it to do a few other things.
So, the sign people, they’re a specialty. I mean, if you ever talk to them, they make signs. I mean, they climb up and down ladders. They use levels to make sure everything’s straight. I mean, it is a craft. These are humans that have to be involved in this stuff.
So, if you look at the commercial printers, right? This is where the question really lies. Because for so many years, the industry has been saying diversify, diversify. And sometimes it works. If you’re printing a lot of wide format, there’s probably a good chance that they also need smaller format printing, or the other way around.
One of my favorite wide format people, Dan Johansen, who’s at Roland now, used to say to the printers, “If they’re not buying wide format from you, they’re buying it from someone else. So ask them if they’re doing it. Reformulate this question and give it back to you. So, what if specialization was that you go to a printer’s website and it says, “If you’re a law firm, click here. If you’re a landscaping company, click here.” And when they go in there, they’re guided by the printer’s website of all the things that they might need for a marketing campaign, or to go to an event, or something like that. Then they are specialists in verticals where they can still produce all the materials they’re producing, but they’re helping people get into at least a lane instead of looking at the Cheesecake Factory menu and saying, “My god. First of all, I don’t have an hour to read this thing. And second of all, there’s crazy stuff on this menu that nobody should be eating in the Cheesecake Factory.” What do you think about that?
[0:22:32] NT: That was kind of my point with the verticals, and the specialization, and the McDonald’s, four things 4,000 times. I didn’t mean it like that. I agree with you wholeheartedly. And it’s interesting because I was thinking of specialization as equipment. I’m a digital printer. I’m an offset printer. But you just put it another way. Look at the need, right? You go get what’s out there as opposed to saying you can specialize and be the best at this equipment, that equipment. But it’s also smart to specialize in what you know people are already doing in a certain vertical, right? And so I think it’s good to think both ways. This is very thought-provoking conversation, and it can switch on you.
[0:23:11] DC: It’s also the efforts that you put into marketing. Are you marketing to everybody who needs materials for an event? Or are you going specifically after people who are travel agents? They actually still have those people, I just found out.
[0:23:24] NT: The shotgun is one approach, but it’s not good. It’s what I described before. You’re doing 10,000 books to try to hope to get somebody. Why don’t you find out who really wants it and do a thousand? It’s a different way of thinking. I don’t like the shotgun. It’s like you’re hoping for the best, hoping you hit something.
[0:23:40] DC: It’s what are you good at. And who needs this?
[0:23:44] NT: Make the connection.
[0:23:45] DC: And then help them understand all you can do from them, and they will think that you’re a specialist in their industry. David?
[0:23:54] DD: I don’t necessarily agree with that. I think it’s a lot of extra work that you need to do to find that printer who’s got that website. Personally, I think that most printers websites suck. I think they really don’t tell. It doesn’t tell what the equipment is. We want to know what it is. People are understanding what equipment is now. And now they’re not talking about equipment. We’ve been told, “Don’t talk about equipment. Talk about your processes, what you do.” But people don’t understand that. They want to know. It’s small press, 8.5 by 11. It’s very easy to use.
I was just talking to a very renowned printer. I went on their website. There is no information on there. And they’re a great printer. But there is no reason why ever would use them. But if we’re talking about AI, you’d have to have so much information in there for that AI to find out that you do work for lawyers. But what work do you do for lawyers? It’s just way too much. Do you do books for them? Do you do presentation folders for them? Do you do grave stationary? And that’s just lawyers. Let’s go to a different occupation. What do you do for them? I believe that’s way too specialized. Maybe okay for SEO and people finding you and AI. I don’t necessarily agree with that.
[0:25:19] NT: I think that’s healthy to hear both sides. I really do.
[0:25:21] DC: Yeah, it is. But we’ll let David have his wrong opinion on this one. No, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. But I would just add that there are ways for printers to infiltrate these things by going to the conferences where the lawyers are, and taking a little table and saying, “Hi, we can print your graphics for the trials.” I mean, there’s a lot of printing that goes on in law offices. I mean a lot of it is you just – it’s not very creative printing. A lot of it is just output things. Same thing for medical offices and things like that.
But I will tell you that about 2 years ago, I went to this trade show in Tampa called Kush Con, which was like it’s not recreational marijuana. It’s not pharmaceutical. It’s like the grade below that they sell in gas stations. Delta-8, that’s what it’s called. And CBD stuff was in there. And I went with my friend and co-host of the Printer Chat podcast, Will the Printer, and we were walking around, and he had a Tampa Printer t-shirt on. And he was with his business partner.
And I’m not even telling you, in the first aisle, people came out of their booths and said, “Oh my god, I’ve been looking for a local printer. Can you help us?” Basically, they just buy everything online, and then they’re just – it’s not even like crazy stuff. It’s little labels. It’s little packaging. It’s little shots to give away at the trade show. I mean, their booths were horrible. I mean, nobody has spent any money even thinking about that they’re at a trade show.
There is a way to make your presence known. And then what happens is that you can start getting passed around by those people because they are all, “Oh, I got these from Will the Printer.” And so there is a way of infiltrating these spaces, David, and at least establishing that you understand their business and their needs, which is really all those vertical people want to know.
I remember we used to do return envelopes and things. Remember those? I don’t think I’ve seen one in a very long time. Although, I’m saying that as I have one on the desk from the tax collector because I’m supposed to – if you can’t go online, you’re supposed to send a check in for your car registration or something like that. But it was like a big deal that we even knew what it was, and there was like a code for it. Is it like D? What do they call return? I don’t remember the acronym now, but there was an acronym for it. And if you knew it, the people thought you understood their business is basically what I’m saying.
David, any final words?
[0:28:10] DD: Not on that.
[0:28:11] DC: Okay. Noel, anything else on this one?
[0:28:14] NT: No. I think we’ve covered it pretty well. There’s just so many sides to it. I could jump back and forth.
[0:28:20] DC: Well, we definitely don’t want your head exploding because Noel is literally on press right now. Okay. When we come back, we’re going to wrap up with the final question.
[BREAK]
[0:28:31] DD: Are you a frustrated creative and want a print partner that takes an artisan approach? Do you want to be inspired with techniques that will enhance your next printed or packaging production? Or are you a printer that has unique abilities and need a liaison to enhance your exposure? I’m David Drucker, owner of highresolution printing. I am an independent creative consultant with access to every printing technology out there.
I work hand in hand with creatives and printers, creating projects that are complex, and require meticulous detail, and precision, from concept to completion. Want to see what I mean? Go to guruofprinting.com and get inspired.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:29:15] DC: Okay, here we go, gentlemen. Is the future of print shaped more by new applications or by new audiences? David?
[0:29:27] DD: I would say by new applications more so than audiences. You know what they say. All right. So, let’s suppose that I offer business cards. I can go back to the same exact people and say, “Hey, now I do banners.” So you’re expanding from within as compared to going out there and trying to find new business through whatever sales you know you use. It’s always something that I’ve done. I focus on it.
And when I find out new information or I go to one of these trade shows, and I’m listening to a person. And let’s say they name 15 things and I pull one thing out, one thing out that I might be able to use. Then I can go back to my existing clientele. I can say to them, “This is what we’re doing.” And it does change your business, increases your business according to whatever that is. I built my business on offering additional services that I knew about. If they told me to go bend a tire iron, I wouldn’t be able to do that, you know. That’s what I’ve done. That’s why I have that answer is because it’s what I’m used to.
[0:30:39] DC: Okay. Now let’s bring it further than just your sales for your company and look at the industry. Is it the things we can do or who we can do them for that will shape the future of the industry? Noel?
[0:30:59] NT: For me it’s applications. It’s what we can do. If you build it, they will come. That doesn’t make the other side of it wrong. That’s just the way I think because I’ve done that. When I’ve done all this craziness with the land, all of a sudden, it’s opened up new things for me. I got very good at one thing, and they kind of come or they hear about it. That’s the way I work. But I see both sides of it.
But for me, it’s the application. Because when you get good at something with a new application, you find out what it’s good at. And then you create work, and that work gets seen. And believe me, it gets duplicated. People go, “Wow, that’s a new answer to that.” And that for me drives business and new interest, because it’s a new twist on an old thing maybe, right?
And they might not know it. They might go, “Wow. Why does this look different? I never saw it. This kind of piece of collateral, something looks different about it.” Well, we go about it differently, but it started with the application. We’re now able to. You know what I mean? Or we’re able to do this specific thing, but now we can do it at 80% the cost because a new application made it more efficient. So now you’re going to see that everywhere because word gets – you know what I mean? For me, that’s just the way I think. But I think it’s the egg or the – you know, one of the opposite.
[0:32:14] DC: Oh my god. I was just thinking. It is. It’s very chicken and egg. David, since I kind of modified it a bit, I want you to answer. And then I will let you know my answer.
[0:32:24] DD: Okay. Well, I could see new applications. I think I was saying that, by saying I’m in an exhibition, and I’m listening to somebody speak, and they talk about a certain way of doing things. And then I begin to offer it. But always for me, it’s always been through referral. So if I’m doing something for somebody, I know it’s going to come in for somebody else. I’m doing that right now. I found a piece of equipment. I love what it does. I’m experimenting with papers. I’m going to put out a very simple mailer to a very targeted audience, but I know that what I’m going to get back from that is going to be far greater in those responses in business. Yeah. Okay. It’s application. All right, Noel, you got me.
[0:33:14] NT: I don’t think there’s any right answer.
[0:33:16] DC: No, you both say applications. I say audience because –
[0:33:21] DD: Let’s hear.
[0:33:21] DC: Okay. Well, here we go. Who’s going to care about your applications if everybody thinks that print is a dying medium? Nobody cares. The applications are what keeps them hooked. But if the printing industry and all of us aren’t letting people know everything that print can do, there is nobody to print for. I am a gatherer of people, right? So that’s just my perspective of things. If you want to introduce new things to people, then there has to be people to introduce them to.
I think that the fact that additive or retractive manufacturing received the name 3D printing was one of the best gifts that the scientists who invented it gave to the printing industry because we can claim it. Even though technically it’s not printing, right? But it’s something cool that makes new audiences look into the printing industry. And even just like being able to get a personalized bobblehead of yourself, which is usually done by 3D printing, that opens up the civilians out in the world to think of, “Wow, I didn’t even know that I could make this. What else can I do?”
I think that we are losing that audience. I once was at an event and there was an economist who gave a presentation, which was the best presentation I’ve ever seen about the printing industry. One, because he was completely honest about everything. He wasn’t there to make everybody feel good about the industry that they were working in. But his position was based on science and facts, which is that he put up a chart of the United States and age groups, and how many people were in the age groups.
And he basically looked at the people 60 and higher and said, “There’s all your people who read newspapers. There’s all your people who still prefer to get things in the mail, bills and statements. See all those other people?” No, that is not the world that they live in. And he also said that half of those people over there, which are the baby boomers, which was the biggest generation until the millennials came along, they’re not going to be here that much longer. So now what?
And that’s why we see there’s a lot of these, let’s say, legacy print applications that are gone now. So I think it’s really important that we refresh and keep alive the audience that we need to embrace print as a communication, education, marketing, and sales channel device. Noel?
[0:36:39] NT: I see what you’re saying. I do agree with you.
[BREAK]
[0:36:44] NT: Hi, I’m Noel Tocci, founder of Tocci Made. The printing industry has changed quite a bit, and I’ve learned a lot since I joined my brother’s small but mighty printing company in Newark, New Jersey, back in 1980. Over the years, while focusing primarily in the design and creative communities, I’ve come to understand and believe wholeheartedly that powerful, effective, and impactful print communication always lives at the intersection of great design, appropriate materials, and thoughtfully curated execution. Making beautiful work is a journey from concept, or idea, to desired result. Tocci Made is here to help you find your way and create work that is not only effective but something you can be proud of. Head to toccimade.com and find out how we can help.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:37:30] NT: Say the last part again about the marketing device.
[0:37:34] DC: Because a lot of people who aren’t in the printing industry look at printing as this horrible thing that kills trees. And their reference to it is some old guy in a movie with white overalls all over him going, “Stop the presses.” Right? And they think that this has nothing to do with them. They get a postcard in the mail that has their name on it with an offer that is perfect for them, and they just think, “Wow, this is so cool.” But they don’t understand what all the things, and all the people, and all the technology that was involved in you getting that perfect offer at the perfect time with the perfect message.
The audience also contains people who will grow up, or come to be, or rise up through the ranks as directors of marketing, as people with lot tons of budgets. And if they just get crap in their house, they’re not going to want to invest their money in putting it in anyone else’s house with their logos on it.
What I mean is that print is a sales, a marketing, a communication, and an educational channel. It just happens to be coming to you from ink on paper. And the other part about it is that print – well, although, I have to say on the TV now, you have a digital bridge to a digital bridge. It’s crazy. On TV, you scan QR codes now to go from your big screen to your little screen. Of course, if you’re watching on a phone, you can’t do that. So, I don’t understand that strategy totally.
But the whole point is that if we can convince these people out there who do not believe that print has a place in their life whatsoever, think about the yellow pages. I always like to use that as an example. By the way, anyone who’s under 30 or 40, the yellow pages is basically this big book that you used to get once a year, and it had all the businesses in your zip code listed. And it was very interesting because everybody was like AA, high-resolution printing and packaging. You would show up in the A’s and nobody had to go to the H’s to find it.
But sometimes I present and I put up a slide, and I first ask, “Does anyone know what this is?” And some people do and some people don’t. And then I say, “Who was upset when this went away?” Paper companies and printing companies. Who wasn’t upset? The world. Because that’s the internet now, right? That is the way that I think civilians think about print. I don’t need this. I don’t want this.
Look, we always use the example of the Uline catalog because it’s crazy. I mean, especially with people who are younger, they get that in the mail and all they think is, “How many trees died for me to get this thing that I didn’t ask for in my mailbox? I don’t need a filing cabinet.” Whatever it might be. So, if we don’t have an audience, the applications don’t matter is a very long way of getting to what you were asking me, Noel.
[0:41:01] NT: And I get that. But the point of it is what? How do we get the audience to – I mean, they are exposed to good print. Even the ones who hate the cataloges and everything else, maybe they don’t know that. They walk in the BMW showroom. Even today, they’re not leaving. They’re looking at a $90,000 BMW. They want that shiny brochure and everything else, and it means more to them. It means something to them. I see your point. You’re bringing a very valid point, but it’s again chicken or the egg.
[0:41:35] DC: It is. Because once you have an audience, you have to keep them –
[0:41:38] NT: You have to engage them.
[0:41:39] DC: You have to engage them with the applications.
[0:41:41] NT: Right. Blow them away.
[0:41:42] DD: You can’t have one without the other.
[0:41:44] DC: Correct.
[0:41:45] DD: It’s just that blend and that chemistry of what you’re putting out there and who’s responding to it. It’s just there.
[0:41:52] DC: Okay. Well, I think this was a very interesting conversation. And when I share this podcast, I will actually also maybe post a couple of these questions for other people to chime in on just to get a take on what you all think out there. And I want to thank Noel and David for their time, and attention, and thought leadership. And everything you need to connect with them is in the show notes.
And I want to thank you too for listening and spending your time with us. We do appreciate it. We will be back soon with another podcast. Until then, everybody, print long and prosper.
Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars, and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com. We’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcasts. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
[END]
