[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:05] DC: It takes the right skills and the right innovation to design and manage meaningful print marketing solutions. Welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse, where we explore all facets of print and marketing that create stellar communications and sales opportunities for business success. I’m your host, Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to The Printerverse. Thanks for tuning in. Listen long and prosper.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:31] DC: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador, and I am thrilled to welcome two incredible guests today. We have Jon Bailey. He is the CEO of the Precision Proco Group, a visionary leader with over 25 years of experience revolutionizing the print and e-commerce industries. The Precision Group is more than a printing company. It’s a powerhouse of creativity, technology, and data-driven solutions. With a strong commitment to embracing digital disruption, the group specializes in helping brands save time, reduce costs, and elevate their customer engagement strategies.
We also have with us today Harrison Bailey, who’s studying data science and analytics at Bournemouth University in England, is the owner of The Smart Elephant and recently became a mentor for budding entrepreneurs. Welcome to the podcast, gentlemen.
[00:01:30] JB: Thank you very much.
[00:01:31] HB: Hello. Thanks –
[00:01:32] JB: Doesn’t that sound glamorous? We sound very glamorous in your intro. Thank you, Deborah.
[00:01:36] DC: You’re very welcome. You are actually my first father-and-son duo on the podcast, so thank you very much for that honor. Jon, I want to start with you. We’ve known each other for quite some time, mostly through our association with Dscoop, although you’ve been a chairman and I’ve been a marketing partner of theirs for many years. Jon, can you share more about how Precision Proco helps clients bridge the gap between print and digital innovation? What are you defining as digital innovation?
[00:02:06] JB: Yes, absolutely. We talk about how digital loves print. We truly believe in digital marketing, the digitization of all businesses. But we believe that print, if it’s made easy to choose and easy to use, should be as easy to choose and easy to use as sending an email, right? We want to make it an absolute no-brainer for the next generation who are really focused on digital in using print to enhance and amplify their digital media.
Also, we want to make people realize how prints change. The print is not an old-fashioned technology. It’s not an old-fashioned medium. Absolutely, more innovation happens in the print industry than most of the big companies in the world. It’s so radically fast, and it changes so quick that it really is such an amazing opportunity.
Because it’s probably for the last few years maybe been seen as a bit slow or not quite as sexy as other ways of marketing, I think it’s just we just celebrate the opportunity that there is now to make it the next big thing, which is funny to say in print, right? But it really could be the next big thing if it’s done properly, and if it adds value, and if it uses data, and if it’s done in a modern way.
[00:03:11] DC: The industry has to really stop just saying digital because if you’re within the printing industry and someone says digital, they immediately go to digital printing. Even when I say that your company helps clients bridge the gap between traditional print and digital innovation, there are so many people who are going to think that we mean digital printing and not digital marketing, right?
[00:03:36] JB: Yes. We talk about growing digitally driven pages. What we mean by digitally driven pages are pages that are driven via a digital medium; e-commerce, a marketplace, a digital file directly driven behavior off the back of a retail operating system, whatever that looks like. But it’s about growing digitally driven pages via digital print technology, analog print technology, the whole lot.
[00:04:07] DC: Right. I mean, nobody should care what they’re printing on if it generates the results they need, which is the right message at the right time to the right person, right?
[00:04:16] JB: Right. We don’t talk about how we’re printing it or what device most of the time we’re printing on. I mean, sure, there’s some applications that need to be done on an HP Indigo or need to be done on another piece of technology. But, fundamentally, it’s about the efficiency. Efficiency comes from the speed of which it comes in and goes out looking fantastic. It’s not always about even the price. It’s about the route to market as well.
There’s a lot of innovation in all the different technologies and the new ganging technology that we can use and the operational efficiencies throughout all the finishing. I mean, that’s one of the big parts people forget. Actually, the finishing is more complex than the actual printing, right? There’s all that element. But there’s just so much new stuff going on to enable you to make it quicker, faster, cheaper, better, and to compete in the new world and make it personalized, dynamic, automated, on-demand, and when you want it. We all talk about that in this good world, but that’s just such a possibility now.
[00:05:14] DC: Yes. I mean, better pricing, better quality, better service. What about just that you’re going to help me make this piece of print meaningful to somebody? I don’t care how you freaking do it. Just make it meaningful and help me generate the results I want, whether that’s getting someone on a website, in a store, getting somebody to an event. We have to work together on these things. I don’t know how you do it without data moving forward to solve that meaningful part of it.
Speaking of data, Harrison, can you let everybody know more about you, your company, The Smart Elephant, and the mentoring program that you have recently joined?
[00:05:53] HB: Yes, of course. I go to Bournemouth Uni. I’m in my final year, as you mentioned at the start. I also do my own company as well called The Smart Elephant, which basically it’s all about leveraging student talent to take on different AI and data analytics projects. But the whole reason I set it up, and I’ll say the reason I chose The Smart Elephant as the name as well, is that there’s two elephants in the room we wanted to address. That is that one for start is students are lazy and out on the lash every night, which is true for most students, but not for us guys over here. Then the other one is that data is really difficult to get and understand.
We basically – I’m studying data analytics, and I’ve got a team of people that I work with as well that all come and help and are employed by The Smart Elephant to help deliver these projects. That’s the main thing that I really like and believe in from The Smart Elephant as well is that we’re really focused on making a big impact. We want to make an impact on everything we do. Yes, that’s the main thing.
[00:06:59] JB: To jump in, Deborah, before he talks about this mentorship piece he did, he gets used to me jumping in, and he’ll tell me to shut up in a minute when I start talking, you know? But interestingly, one of the things I love about working with these guys and what I’m learning, and I know we’re going to talk a bit later about other stuff, but it’s the new approaches it brings and different way of thinking that it’s brought to me when I’ve been working with them on some projects is, for example, projects that they’re doing that aren’t necessarily charged like a traditional job but actually based on value. You talk about how do we get people to see the value? These guys are going to customers and to ask them and say, “We’ll build that for you.” Like an honesty bar, right? “We’ll build that for you. We’ll do it. We’ll deliver it. If it doesn’t add any value, don’t pay us. If it does add value, be fair and pay us what we’re due to be paid, and pay what you think it’s worth.”
It’s a really refreshing thing because actually then you go, “This is a no-brainer. I can get into this without the stress.” You do it. It adds real value. Then you start to build that relationship. I think that’s a key part of it, to be honest as well. The new approach.
[00:07:57] HB: Yes, definitely. I mean, because we’re students as well, we keep it real. There’s no corporate fluff, if you will, on anything. We have honest conversations and just try and make an actual impact on whatever we’re doing.
[00:08:11] HB: Well, your mentorship came from that, didn’t it? Because you were looking at doing a project for AI with them, and then they asked you to mentor, didn’t they?
[00:08:17] HB: Yes. So then to talk about this mentorship, it’s at Bradford University at an organization within the university called BREE. It’s basically for entrepreneurs and aspiring entrepreneurs to come to and get help from entrepreneurs. All the mentors are people that own their own businesses and have done stuff like that in the past. Then the students would go, and they have a mentor there assigned that can basically help them set up or see their vision and speak about them and help them build something.
The way that came about, yes, was through Smart Elephant where I was actually speaking to someone, a professor that worked at the University of Bradford, about taking on more projects and doing these sorts of things. That’s how that’s sprung about, but that’s relatively new, and I’m just starting to get into it, and I’m really looking forward to it, so yes.
[00:09:03] JB: I think what’s quite interesting in that, when you look at it, what I was quite interested in that is they don’t want a graybeard like me, Deborah, right? We talk about our industry being full of graybeards like me, which add value in certain ways. But actually think about that. I think back to my days at university. If I had a mentor that was only a few years older than me that was already starting to do stuff in a different way, I can relate to that. I don’t always need to relate to someone who’s been in this for so long. I think that I was really impressed actually with Bradford University for recognizing that very quickly actually. They moved quick on it.
[00:09:35] DC: Yes. We had the Girls Who Print Conference the other day, and we were talking to two educators. They said one of the best things a company can do is hire Gen Z-ers in pairs. To your point, one could be a little older than the other. But they have to have somebody that they can relate to and learn with each other and bounce things off of each other and also have a partner to say, no, this is the way we think we should do this now or something of that. The buddy system really does help open the door.
I want to circle back to something before we move forward because, Harrison, I have not had a college student from Europe on my podcast since this happened to me at drupa. We had created an experience where students would scan a QR code. It would prompt them to take a selfie or a little group selfie. The file would then get uploaded to Antigro Designer’s interface. It would print out five stickers, die-cut stickers of people’s heads on the sticker sheet. All we asked is that they put one sticker on a wall that said we are drupa to show everybody who is at drupa. There was an award ceremony, and over a hundred students came to the drupa dna area where we were doing this.
I was like, “I got 10 people behind the counter.” I’m like, “We’re going to have a rush here. I’m so excited.” All the students came. There was a language barrier, but I had translators to help me. I could not get one of the students to scan the QR code because they were scared of privacy.
[00:11:17] JB: Really?
[00:11:19] DC: Yes. They told me there was two reasons for it. One, it required an email address to upload the photo. But it was only to say your photo is ready, like your stickers are ready. It wasn’t like to go back and try to sell them a software program that wasn’t it. The second thing was that if they put a sticker on the wall, someone else could come and take a photo of it, and then their face is out on social media.
Now, talking to people about data-driven marketing and then learning that a digital bridge might actually be a problem for the future of this data-driven marketing thing if we can’t get people to off the print through something they think is secure to somewhere else, I think we’re in for a world of hurt in the printing industry because this is all we’re speaking about now. Harrison, Jon is waiting to say something, but I want you to say it first. Just what is your opinion, thoughts around anything I just said to you?
[00:12:25] HB: Well, to be honest with you, the only part of what you just said I’d be reluctant to do would be the email. Do you know when you go to a cafe, for example? You need the Internet, and it asks you to put your email in, and you put in a fake email. I can’t be bothered to do stuff like that. But if I was at drupa, I would not care at all. I would put my email right in there and take a photo and slap it on the wall, to be honest with you. I don’t know. I feel like there’s maybe a lot of my generation. I guess you could describe it as woke or have that sort of – I don’t know. I wouldn’t put a second thought behind that, to be honest, if I was at drupa. I don’t know what I’m – I wouldn’t think about it.
[00:12:58] DC: I was then told it’s very prevalent in Germany and very prevalent in Belgium and that it is going to become more prevalent. I have to say I was quite disheartened by my experience there. It actually freaked me out because I’m like, “How do we do omni-channel marketing if we can’t get people under 30 to scan things?” Jon, thoughts?
[00:13:20] JB: I think where I’m at with this, Deborah, is I get it to a point. I do think there’s a bit of a backlash with people wanting to fight against the data perspective. I actually think it’s not a bad thing because I think too many people have abused it for so long that actually it’s probably caused this. But data-driven marketing doesn’t necessarily have to be personalized. It can be really smart as long as it’s relevant, and it’s relevant timing, and relevant content, and people trust the brand, and they’re willing to give their information.
Maybe you have to work a little bit harder to try and build that trust up before people will start giving you that data. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I don’t think it’s wrong for brands to start treating people’s data with respect and doing it properly either. They’re not just blasting crap out and selling it on to the next person. I actually think a lot of the stuff that people have done with GDPR, which a lot of people kicked off about because it’s caused problems, I think it’s good practice. I think if you had good practice anyway, GDPR is only a good thing. I don’t have a problem with that.
I think it’s really about building that trust, so you just have to do it properly. I’m not freaked out about it. I think that sort of change is good. It’s good for the people that do it properly, and it’s good for people who care. I think you’re right. When you’re doing something like that, it was good fun because I was there, and I saw it. It was brilliant, and I did it. Maybe just because it was in that audience, and it’s a big thing, it’s a big show, and it was maybe a bit impersonal, maybe why people felt like that.
If you flip back to Dscoop where we have circa 100 students, which Harrison was there when he was talking to the students, he shared with them, and I did sessions with them. They had no problem with sharing their data with me, linking in with me.
[00:13:20] DC: The Americans, though, right?
[00:14:51] JB: Yes. But, also, there was European students as well that don’t have the issue with the clusters there. I think it’s to do with that really.
[BREAK]
[00:15:00] DC: Are you looking to elevate your game, take your bottom-line customer relationships, and events to the next level? Then, I want to work with you. I’m Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse. I engage with a vast, global audience of print and marketing professionals across all stages of their careers. They are seeking topical information and resources, new ways to serve their customers and connect with them, optimize processes for their communications and operations, and they need the products and services and partnership you offer to get to their next level.
Print Media Centr offers an array of unique opportunities that amplify your message and support your mission across the Printerverse. Let’s work together, bring the right people together, and move the industry forward together. Link in the show notes. Engage long and prosper.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[00:16:01] DC: I think you make an excellent point, and it actually made me feel a lot better. You’re right. They didn’t know what Antigro Designer was, and that was the company that was doing the demo or the engagement. Even though we were telling them that’s not what it was for, you’re right. Why should anybody trust me on that?
That actually gives me hope because it goes back to establishing trust and authenticity as the first two steps to any relationship. You’re right. I obviously did not provide either of those two things, or I would have gotten 100 freaking college students to scan the – you have no idea. I had professors doing it. I pulled in Frank Tueckmantel. I’m like, “Tell them in German what I’m saying.” He’s like – they actually told me to stop and leave the students alone because I did not understand what was going on. I’m like, “It’s fun.” They’re like, “We don’t care.” I’m like, “Okay. I don’t know.”
[00:16:52] JB: They are not doing it. Yes. Exactly.
[00:16:53] DC: Freaking Europeans sometimes, right? Okay. Harrison, how do you think younger perspectives are influencing the evolution of print and technology?
[00:17:07] HB: Good question.
[00:17:10] DC: By the way, privacy would be one of the things that going to influence being bombarded living in a world where everyone’s taking their email address and doing bad things with it. Sorry. Go ahead, Harrison.
[00:17:24] HB: No. 100%. I’d also say, I mean, growing up in my generation, it’s very different to my dad, for example, when he was growing up where everyone’s had phones. Everyone’s had all this access to technology and the Internet. I also think that contributes to different skill sets. I feel like this generation growing up with AI becoming very prevalent and all these different access that you have now.
Yes. I guess it’s all second nature to me, and I don’t have any of the – I can’t imagine it any other way. I know how to use all these new tools that come into the market and that are readily available, whereas people that haven’t grown up in my generation and are already out there working might not have had the same amount of time to commit to it or just not have the knowledge or learn as it’s come out and kept up to date with it all.
I definitely say that being my generation and being able to grow up alongside all these different tools that are coming out and technologies has definitely helped with my understanding of it all. It really helps boost my productivity and my overall thought process when I’m going to do work if that answers part of your question.
[00:18:35] DC: It does. Until you go into the real world and not at Proco, of course. But when you go into the real world and, “That’s not the way we do it around here. This is the way you want to do it.” It kills everything you just said about new ideas coming into the company.
[00:18:48] JB: Yes. You ruined it straight away. Boom. Yes.
[00:18:50] DC: Right? People are like, “We want young people in here to go do social media.” I’m like, “Okay. And then what do you do after that?” “We give them a list.” I’m like, “No. Just give them their camera. Tell them to run around the print shop and find the coolest things that they can find and come back and tell you what you think they are.”
[00:19:08] JB: Bring these people in and then letting them do the actual way they want to work rather than break them straight away.
[00:19:14] DC: Exactly. It’s like, “We need young people because we’re going to force them to be old people. Yay.”
[00:19:21] JB: Basically. Yes.
[00:19:21] DC: Jon, actually the same question because you have a different perspective because I’m assuming that some of your client base are getting younger. New people are coming, moving up into roles but they’re still – and older people moving out of the roles. How is that influencing your business, the way your salespeople approach people?
[00:19:42] JB: Radically change, right? Harrison has just talked about how he grew up, right? I grew up with print being my main medium. He’s grown up with phones being his main medium. That’s going to change. When I was at university, I remember being asked to do a special session on this new thing called the World Wide Web and actually going down and actually being told, “Type in www.” I’m like, “This is never going to catch on.” Right? I actually remember that when I was at uni.
I had a word processor, not a computer because we couldn’t have them either, and no phone. It’s bound to radically change how the printers should react. But the opportunity is there if you embrace it. We’ve always – luckily for me, I’ve always been one that it’s happy to sit outside his comfort zone. I don’t think anything good comes from sitting inside it. Our business ethos is always to change and to accept new technologies.
You know what we have to do? We have to work really hard now. We have to work harder to make print work harder and add more value because it can’t be lazy anymore because it’s got to be different, right? It’s got to create memories. It’s got to create emotions. It’s got to stand out. It’s got to give the Harrisons of the world who are either running, who have got serious jobs now and have got serious budgets and are responsible for serious delivery of their brands. We’ve got to show them how, if they make print work really hard for them, whilst making it easy to use and easy to choose, can do more than digital, can add more than digital, that is more sustainable than digital, that does still work with all the generations. It’s the only medium that works with all generations, right? But differently for each. It’s impacted on us to make it just – we have to just work harder and not be lazy and not think it’s easy. That’s certainly what we have to do to keep it relevant.
[BREAK]
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[INTERVIEW RESUMED]
[00:22:16] DC: You also have to work harder on communicating with people who might be 30 years younger than you so that I’m going to bring it back to that and bring Harrison in. I’m sure as a business owner, you’re getting solicitations all the time now from people who are like, “Hey, how come we – here’s something you don’t need, and I’m trying to sell it to you.” Or I’ll give you an example. Somebody was trying to sell me a tractor, and I couldn’t figure out why. Then I realized my last name is Corn, and I just came up in some search. They’re trying to sell me a tractor, and I’m like, “What about me makes you think I need farming equipment? I don’t understand.”
[00:22:52] JB: The people and I want to know, Deborah. Did you buy one?
[00:22:55] DC: I didn’t buy one. I’m sorry. But I should have referred them to you instead. That would have been funny. With the tie into The Smart Elephant and the social media, is social selling still a thing, Harrison? I mean, is it appropriate to approach someone through their social media channels and say, “Hey, what you got coming up next week,” or try to start a relationship? What are your feelings about that? Again, it goes back to privacy, too. Who are you going to let in your feed?
[00:23:26] HB: Yes. I mean, me personally, I’ve really enjoyed – this links back to my placement year as well, where I actually got my work at Dscoop. But one of the main reasons I was really happy I was offered that role and took it on is because of the networking opportunities. I really enjoyed the whole Dscoop community because they’re all also close together. I personally like to try and build up a personal relationship with people and then see the opportunities that arise that way, rather than reaching out to people online in terms of a business perspective trying to get work.
[00:23:58] JB: Old school.
[00:23:59] HB: Yes. But, I mean, me personally, if I’m being honest, I don’t see a problem with reaching out to people that you don’t know. Like you said, I’ve had a few people reach out online with random things that I’ve not even responded to. So that’s what I mean that you might get –
[00:24:13] JB: You’ve not respond, though, right?
[00:24:14] HB: Yes.
[00:24:14] JB: That’s the point.
[00:24:15] HB: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It might not be the biggest success rate of your outreach, but I don’t see an issue with it. If it’s something that I genuinely thought would be useful to me, then I probably would respond and have a conversation with them. But it’s like you said. I’m being offered a lot of random waffle, so you have to do targeted outreach, in my opinion.
[00:24:33] JB: Relevancy. Yes.
[00:24:34] DC: Yes. I mean, the problem, though, it goes back to everything. The first thing I do in the morning is I am having my coffee, and I delete all my spam messages. I’d spam everybody. I delete all my messages. I get rid of everybody. I mean, that’s like my morning ritual when I’m getting ready to dive into The Printerverse. Before that, I ease in by zapping people all day.
To your most excellent point, some of those people might actually have things that I would care about if they would know more about me. I’m not saying my pain. As a print customer, I have my whole thing about, “What’s your pain?” It’s like you’re my pain right now because you’re asking me questions that if I had pain, I’d be reaching out to you. Maybe I don’t know I have pain, but you’re not approaching me in a way that I want to have any conversations with you.
Okay, so I want to be mindful of the time because I know you guys have another appointment to get to. I just want to jump to this. We are right now in the printing industry, automation, optimization, get it in and out as fast as possible. That’s not a bad thing. We know that there are definitely bottlenecks in a print shop. Repress is a bottleneck. Estimation is a bottleneck from a customer perspective. But my question is, is automation a creativity killer?
There used to be a time when I sent a file, and then 10 people looked at it. The press people looked at it. They set it up. They tried to make it as perfect as they could before I came for a press proof or a press check. Or they sent me a proof or anything like that. But now, with things just going through automation, is it killing creativity? How do we ensure that there’s a balance between creative expression, right? Print is a craft. It should be an art, at least in my world. Operational efficiency, which is the only way print shops are going to survive. Push me, pull me there, Jon.
[00:26:44] JB: I don’t know which way you’re going to. I think I know which way you’d go on this one, so I don’t think we’re going to argue and have a debate on this one. Look, creativity absolutely can get killed by automation. But more than automation killing creativity, over-processing is what kills creativity, not the automation. That’s different.
[00:27:02] DC: What do you mean by that?
[00:27:04] JB: At some point, you have the creativity curve, and then you have the process curve. When they go the other way, where process dictates what happens to a job over the creative thinking of a human being, that’s when you lose innovation and creativity. That’s not necessarily down to automation. It’s down to how you deliver automation. If you deliver automation that takes out the low function and administration function of a process of which in print there are now a lot, I’m getting more and more, and that frees up your human being creativity to be more, to celebrate human design and do what they do best, and actually spend time talking to the customer rather than doing 15 quotes because that’s the bit that can be automated, then actually what automation does is it flourishes creativity.
If automation becomes the process by which you look after customers from start to finish, then that’s when creativity dies. The minute creativity dies in a print company and you become process-driven over creativity, you might as well, in my opinion, pull the shutters down because you got nowhere to go. In the world of automation and AI, the minute everybody becomes the same, the only differentiator is your creativity. If you haven’t got any, you’re the same as everybody else, and then you’re on a price-driven thing. That’s my position.
[00:28:19] DC: I’ve actually never thought of it that way. I always thought it was all or nothing, but you’re right. Automate the things that are administrative tasks and put you in time —
[00:28:26] JB: You absolutely have to automate. Absolutely, you have to automate the processes within a print shop in today’s modern world because the margin is too tight to be able to do it any other way, in most cases. This is not every case, of course. In most cases. You have to absolutely do that. If you don’t, you won’t, in most cases, be able to make enough money to justify it. But what you can’t afford to do is remove the people’s creativity out of those processes. It’s both together.
[BREAK]
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[INTERVIEW RESUMED]
[00:29:28] DC: Last question on this particular subject because it is something that really just sometimes can set me off when I hear a printer say to me, “Our focus is on sellable print.” The reason I brought up this topic is because I hear so often from printers that their job ends what they refer to as sellable print. If the customer will approve it, then it’s sellable print. We don’t have to make any effort or spend any time or money and more ink, more paper, more people’s time to make it better because we don’t have to. Because we believe it’s sellable, the client will sign off as it is.
[00:30:10] JB: That means like good enough, right?
[00:30:12] DC: Good enough for that particular client. It might not be good enough for another client. It was – but just that’s a mental mindset that freaks me out when we get into the – is printing a craft or a technology? I know everybody says it’s both. But if it could only be one, what is it?
[00:30:33] JB: It’s going to freak you out because you’re a creative person. That’s going to freak you out. What probably might be a surprise to you or not, but a big chunk of people buying print are not creative people anymore. They actually do not care how creative it is, right? There are elements where good enough is good enough because good enough is all people are willing to pay for. There is, unfortunately, still a big chunk of that market.
[00:30:59] DC: Especially if you’re pricing for sellable print and not spectacular print.
[00:31:04] JB: Especially if you’re pricing for that. My point on that is a bit what I’ve just said previously is I believe the more people go good enough and the more that technology allows us to automate with AI and make processes more automated and still allow us to be even quicker, faster, cheaper, and all that route that we’re talking about, the minute that becomes the norm and at the moment there’s more and more people moving into that sort of space, some of us were innovators in that space, right? Actually coming from – the more that go into that space is how are you going to differentiate yourself in the world of good enough? If you can’t differentiate yourself in the world of good enough, then you really are going to struggle to keep going the right way, in my opinion.
Good enough as its place, I get it, and I’m not going to sit here and say it doesn’t because a lot of people still believe that. But I think the customers that use print that’s good enough will soon start realizing they also need to start adding more value to good enough, and so it becomes more valuable again. Yes, I’m kind of in the middle.
[00:32:07] DC: Harrison, the last question goes to you, and it is how can print position itself to attract younger people to join the industry who don’t have family already in the industry?
[00:32:27] HB: That’s quite a difficult question.
[00:32:29] JB: Well, because you’re spoiled.
[00:32:32] HB: Because I’m lucky that I’ve been introduced this way. I mean, I –
[00:32:35] DC: He’s lucky. I love that he said he’s lucky.
[00:32:38] HB: I think print is awesome. I mean, just today, we went on a little tour around the factory right now at Precision Proco, and I can’t get enough of it. I could do it all day, to be honest. I love seeing it all in all the intricacies. It’s very, very detailed, down to the humidity in the room for all the different papers. I absolutely love stuff like that. I think it’s awesome, and I enjoy seeing it all come together and actually something be created.
[00:33:05] JB: Just to jump in, it’s quite interesting because I know it probably is a quite interesting question to ask you actually. But, obviously, you’ve come from a printing background. What was quite interesting today is, as Harrison just mentioned, they came to see us as a Smart Elephant, not as my son, right? He’s come as a business meeting with some of the team today to look at some projects we’re doing and brought with him a couple of his employees, a couple of his students who have worked for him. It was just – I let the guys take him around, and I watched from a distance. They were just hands in the machine, heads in the machine, looking at it, picking up, really totally engaged with the manufacturing and the technology and the robotics and really warm to it.
I think what we have to do is combine a bit of all of it. I think we have to have passionate leadership who’s passionate about celebrating the new generation, not trying to stop it and realizing it, willing to give people a chance and actually jump in. I mean, I’ll give you a perfect example. We recruited a cyber guy last year, and everyone was looking at these experienced cyber guys X amount of money, this, that. I went and recruited one from Liverpool University, a young student called Nickel who’s just come out. He’s been absolutely fantastic. The kids are off the charts good. He loves working with us, and we love working with him and he’s like – it’s like we could have gone to someone with good experience. Instead, we went with Nick who has been absolutely world-class.
I think you need a bit of that. You keep doing the new stuff to keep people interested. I think you also have to bring in a bit of that human touch we talked about from that creativity piece. I don’t think people want to join a sausage factory, right? I don’t think Harrison and his mates want to join a business that just does what it does Monday to Friday and gets it done. You’ve got to create job satisfaction. We all want to go home feeling like we’ve done a good job. The world is pushing that out of work, not just in our industry, everywhere. It’s making work very – you’re going home and like, “What have I actually done today,” because people want more from you, more from you, KPIs, and –
I think if we don’t stop that and start making it fun to talk to people at the coffee machine again and actually take out the pressure using technology, give people time to be creative again, and give people time to talk about what was on telly the night before rather than frown against it like we used to do, that’s what people get value from working. That’s what will bring people back into our industry. That’s what will get people celebrating print again, rather than seeing it as a –
[00:35:26] HB: Less of a job, of a lifestyle.
[00:35:27] JB: Yes, less of a job and actually a career again. Exactly.
[00:35:30] DC: I don’t agree with you, and I love that perspective. I’m just going to add that humans experience print in the world. When they get crap print in their mailbox, when they see the envelopes ripped open, it goes back to, well, it was sellable, but you’re actually not helping anybody here by just making, creating sellable print. The anecdote I’d like to explain this is that I used to work at Deutsch Advertising, and Donny Deutsch is now a television commentator here or presenter you say over there. He was on a show, and he said that, “The Eiffel Tower is just a lamppost with great PR.” I was like that is the printing industry, right? It’s so much more than just a lamppost.
[00:36:16] JB: Yes, it is.
[00:36:17] DC: Which is technically what the Eiffel Tower is if you think about it at this point in time.
[00:36:23] JB: Yes. But it’s what it stands for, right? That’s part of it as well.
[00:36:26] DC: It’s the stories about it. It’s the emotional attachment that people have to it. It’s that they want to celebrate things with it. Where are they going for special anniversaries? They want to go to this giant lamppost that has great PR, right? As far as creating a new PR ambassador to the printing industry, Harrison, I am dubbing you Intergalactic Ambassador Junior.
[00:36:51] HB: Whoa. Hey, wow.
[00:36:53] DC: Yes, that is a – welcome to the team. I just want to thank you guys so much for your time. I know you have to go, and I really appreciate you fitting me in on your busy schedule today. Everything you need to connect with Jon and Harrison is in the show notes. Until next time, everybody, print long and prosper.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:40:41] DC: Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars, and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com, we’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcasts. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
[END]
