[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:02] DD: Does your printing need some passion?
[0:00:04] NT: Your design some dynamic dimension?
[0:00:07] DC: Are you stuck in a CMYK rut?
[0:00:10] DD: I’m David Drucker, founder, and CEO of highresolution printing and packaging.
[0:00:16] NT: I’m Noel Tocci, founder of Tocci Made, Bespoke Print Consulting.
[0:00:20] DC: And I’m Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse.
Welcome to Making It With Print, the podcast that takes a deep dive into the conception, creation, and production of amazing printed products.
[0:00:34] NT: If you can dream it.
[0:00:35] DD: You can make it.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:38] DC: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Podcast From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your intergalactic ambassador. And today we are here with Making It With Print, which means I’m here with two of the craftiest creative print specialists I know. David Drucker, CEO of highresolution printing and packaging. Hello, David Drucker.
[0:01:01] DD: Hi, good evening. How are you doing?
[0:01:04] DC: I’m fine. Thank you so much. And Noel Tocci, CEO and Founder of Tocci Made. Hello, Noel.
[0:01:11] NT: Hello, guys. How are you? Nice to see you.
[0:01:15] DC: I have a question for you. In Italian, is it Tocci, or is it like the season ricotta where –
[0:01:20] NT: Well, it was Tocci. My mother was 100% French and she used to call us torchi. We don’t know why. But it’s Tocci.
[0:01:25] DC: Okay.
[0:01:26] NT: That’s Tocci.
[0:01:27] DC: All right. Because in ricotta cheese, it’s a ricotta, but there are two C’s. You’re not the Gocci or something.
[0:01:34] NT: I’m not.
[0:01:35] DC: Okay. Well, I digress, people because I got fascinated by his name because it made me feel something about Italy, and that is what we are actually going to speak about today. We hear all the time about using personalization in print to help people create connections, but that’s not the only way that print can elicit emotions in people. And planning for it for what the result you want is a creative strategy. Who better to speak about this topic with than David and Noel?
And I did prepare some questions for this podcast to give the gentlemen a chance to think about their answers because there might not be as straightforward as they usually are in this podcast. I will start with this one. And, Noel, I will ask you first. Can you think of a time that a printed piece really made you feel something? And what was it that made you feel something? Was it the design, the paper, the printing technique?
[0:02:45] NT: And I’m going to keep this succinct. We have to consider where it’s coming from though, right? Because I’m looking at maybe something different than anybody, than other people might, right? A teenager getting a fashion mail, or it might strike a note with them, and they’re like, “Ma, take me to the mall. I got to have this.” But I’m thinking of it from making things. And I think I make some of the nicest things there are.
And I brought this up briefly on another podcast. But this one just nails exactly what you said, but I’m going to get deep but quick. It was a book by a photographer. It’s called The End. The photographer is Rodney Smith. It is one of the top black and white – he’s passed. But his photography, you would recognize. English gentlemen in bowlers in a field, and it’s gorgeous.
And my client, the designer, and I’ll say names because he should be proud, David Meredith, designed it. This book, which I bought, I did not make it. I’m going to do some other books with David. And I said, “Oh, I’ve got the little Rodney Smith’s book.” He goes, “Oh, I designed those. You got to see The End.” I looked it up. I bought it. It was a lot of money. This came through the door and I opened the package and it started with my haptics. My brain was going, “It weighs about 14 pounds. It’s 16 by 20. It’s three inches thick.” Okay, you got me with the wow, right? It’s like wearing a fluorescent shirt. Okay, I see you. Is that all you got? That’s the beginning.
Opened it up. There is a piece of like Bible paper, foil-stamped, pristine. I don’t know how they kept it that way. On top of the case that the book is in, foil-stamped. The End. Pretty good. I’m liking it so far. The case now, I’m trying not to drop it on the floor. I got it out. The fabric is impeccable. There’s that tip on the front that’s done correctly. But how you deboss and then you drop a picture in. It is perfect. I measured it all the way around. I open it up, the end leaves are this striking crazy pattern. The red came through me, like a maroony red. And then I go in and I’m black and white boy. I got my loop out, they’re done as quad tones. They’re on super fine egg, 100-pound text and they are printed impeccably the right way. The paper, the way it flows, the bind, the way it laid up. I was oohing and ahhing all the way through.
And then I did talk to the designer when he did it and he said, “We all didn’t want to take a beating but we said we’re going to do it correctly.” Right? All the solid pages are double blacks. And later I’m going to talk about that. The reds are double red. The half tones are not half tones, they’re quad tones. There’s no shifting. Everything is perfect. It is just a joy. It made me feel – instantly I’m like, “I didn’t do this.” I was pissed off.
And then I was like, “Wow.” My old buddy Massimo used to say I just stood up by myself. I’m a big loser. Clapped my hands and went, “Bravo.” It wouldn’t appeal to everyone. Someone else might go, “Well, yeah, it was $800. It should do your dishes.” But to me, I’m so proud of it and I didn’t do it.
And I talked to the guy, I go, “What you –” he goes, “Oh, I drove him crazy on press. They printed it up in Canada, but they all decided they were just going to –” what do you think would make it great? And this is the message. What do you think would make it great, right? Oh, well, I think this. You know what I mean? Another. You bounce it up, boom. Or another guy might say something else. Too often, it’s one guy’s vision. No, just shut up and do this, do that. You’re going to print it this way. No, the pressman is going to tell us what he thinks. And when you do that, it’s like using all the spices in your rack the right way. That’s the one that it made me feel. But that’s for me. It’s something different for anybody else. But you know why? Because there was pre-thought in it.
The people who did it, I understand. And I asked them, I go, “Well, you guys like doing woo-hoo on press and running around with you.” You go, yeah, you know when you’re making magic. And now it’s not the easiest way to do it. I’m talking about process. It doesn’t always have to be that. You maybe wanted something more simple, like just picking the right picture, married to the right paper. And the client goes, “I identify. I’m going to go buy that.” But for me doing what I do, this was the one that arrow right to my heart.
[0:07:11] DC: Excellent example. David?
[0:07:14] DD: When Noel and I stand in front of a press, and I’ve never stood in front of a press with him, we’re kind of like a maestro and we see what’s coming off a press. The back end to that is a description or an idea of what a production should be. Now, a client might dictate to you, “This is the way the production needs to be done,” but we know deep inside that once we hit metal, once we hit paper, it really needs to be done in a different fashion.
And I recently was doing this production where I haven’t dealt with a client for a really long time, but their client said, “We want you to handle it. You guys are New Yorkers. You’re going to get it done.” And we went down this road. And every time we got on to press and added the next component to it, to me it just didn’t do what it was supposed to do. And I kind of felt at that point that I was failing and I had said to them, “I think we need to go down a different road. Let’s finish this the way that it’s done now.” But if I could do the whole thing all over again, I wouldn’t put it on a press. I’d hot stamp it. I’d begin to use other elements that maybe you didn’t think about in producing it but actually gives you a much better piece at the end.
And what they allowed me to do is once we produced it and they paid for it, they said, “All right, we’re going to redo the whole thing and you’re going to do it your way.” We’re talking about we’re on press right now. I’m comparing printing offset to a hot stamp. All right. A hot stamp isn’t going to be an exact match. There isn’t a time frame to be able to make a custom pigment to do this. But once I saw that hot stamp on there, man, I lit up. I was like, “We’re here. This is exactly the way the piece should do.”
And in doing that, that led to the next idea. Well, why don’t we change this around? Well, instead of embossing it, let’s do a multilevel emboss. Let’s see how that goes on that. It’s kind of you hear the music, you want to improvise on it if you have the opportunity to do it. And that’s a recent production. I could pick out a lot more that we’ve done. But, really, it’s pinpointed to what that design is dictating and how we can help them achieve that end result.
[0:09:42] DC: I have a follow-up question for you. What was your intention of the foil stamp? What was it that you wanted it to communicate to the person receiving this?
[0:09:56] DD: There were a lot of elements in the first. There was printing and then there was a spot UV on top of that, and we had a lot of issues with making them work together. The stamping actually took care of all that.
[0:10:12] DC: It was just a solution to a production issue, not trying to create a different type of connection emotionally with the recipient.
[0:10:20] DD: Well, in my head it did. Because as I said –
[0:10:23] DC: Well, that’s what I’m asking you about.
[0:10:25] DD: When I saw that, I was like, “Oh, we hit the mark.” And that only leads to, “Well, what else can I do? What else will I do? What else can they afford to do?”
[0:10:36] DC: Yeah.
[0:10:37] DD: It would never been able to be done if I didn’t have the insight of the years of experience.
[0:10:45] DC: Yeah.
[0:10:44] NT: Can I make a comment about what –
[0:10:46] DC: Please. Yes.
[0:10:47] NT: When you switched from ink to foil, now you probably didn’t imagine you needed that at first, but there’s so many other things that that elicits. Right now you’re talking about tactility and a change of contrast and the way that it –
[0:11:00] DC: It looks more expensive once they spoil on it, right?
[0:11:02] NT: Right. It does. But sometimes foil looks like, “What they foil for? I’m not getting anything out of it.” This sounds like they just all discovered – and David did realize, “Let’s try this.” And everybody agreed. It’s closer to where we want to go. It’s more of what we want. Obviously, it’s more special. But I just think it’s so cool because there’s no right answer, right? And you don’t know what you don’t know. And the fact that David – because everybody goes, “Well, it looks really good, but maybe next time.” And he didn’t allow for next time. That’s why I love David.
[0:11:36] DC: Yeah. No, totally.
[BREAK]
[0:11:40] NT: Hi, I’m Noel Tocci, founder of Tocci Made. The printing industry has changed quite a bit, and I’ve learned a lot since I joined my brother’s small but mighty printing company in Newark, New Jersey, back in 1980. Over the years, while focusing primarily in the design and creative communities, I’ve come to understand and believe wholeheartedly that powerful, effective, and impactful print communication always lives at the intersection of great design, appropriate materials, and thoughtfully curated execution. Making beautiful work is a journey from concept, or idea, to desired result. Tocci Made is here to help you find your way and create work that is not only effective but something you can be proud of. Head to toccimade.com and find out how we can help.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:12:26] DC: Eliciting and emotion in your customer is a fantastic way to elevate all of your work. We hear a lot of times there’s the example of, “Well, if your customer is doing something without a varnish or spot varnish, send them back a sample with the varnish just to show them what it would look like.” And if they get it and they’re like, “Oh my God, this makes me feel like special or that this is more special,” they’re going to want to do it. I’m glad that you brought that up, David, because there is not just how it made you feel, but it obviously made your client feel good, not only about the results, but about being able to trust you to move forward.
We hear you don’t want to sell, you want to tell. There’s a lot of marketing focuses on storytelling, and print is one of those mediums to tell the stories. Now, you could tell it by a book or you could tell it a million different ways. I have a couple of examples if you guys want me to start you off. Yeah. Okay. The question is, how can designers use print techniques to tell a story instead of just showing one? And I have one example. Well, two examples. One’s a simple example. A simple example is the 19 Crimes Wine, for example, where you scan the label and you hear the stories about the prisoners that were sent to Australia or whatever. They have one with rappers who went to jail. They have all these different things.
A QR code is a technique, not necessarily print, but it’s on print to help tell a story besides just showing one. And then something else I’ve seen recently is these labels that are like books and they open up so you don’t have to scan, you don’t have to go to a digital bridge. They actually just peel open and there’s the story about the vineyard, or the special vintage of that wine, or the town that it’s supporting, or something like that. There’s two examples of using print, reveals and things like that. David, what are some ways that you have helped move a message or a story along through printing techniques?
[0:14:51] DD: It’s been less of what you said, where you’re giving an implement. Sometimes it has to do with size. You might look at a piece and say, “Hey, if you did this 30% larger, then, number one, it looks like a storybook. Number two, brings you into it, makes you that much more curious.” The other thing is using printing techniques to enhance whether it could be a cover, whether it could be some element on the inside.
Noel does a lot of books. Sometimes in these books, you just do one element, like maybe a spot varnish that enhances a particular color. And that identity of your eye going to that color then opens up to, “Oh, so now I get it. Now I’m going in and now I’m looking at this and I might appreciate it a little bit more.”
We’ve used QR codes. Not to be negative on this, but I found that sometimes it leads you into a different direction. And you have to come back to whatever that printed piece was. You have to then come back in and then you have to reacquaint yourself with what you were doing. But we’ve done a great deal of that. I prefer more of that visual technique. What that is? What that binding is? Noel is going to try to do yellow. Well, “Hey, yellow on a spine? That might be a really difficult thing to approach.” But in that, you might find another technique, Noel, that you might be able to use elsewhere. But just in that alone is a conversation.
[0:16:37] DC: Definitely. Noel?
[0:16:39] NT: Yeah. I think you guys both touched on it, it’s kind of working backwards. If you think about what’s special about the message you’re trying to send and then you find a way to bring it back to that. Maybe it’s something shiny with a foil, like you said, personalization or variable data when used correctly, I think, and sparingly when it sneaks up on somebody. Because those things to the reader, to the person who you’re trying to get, “Oh, this is great,” you want something that drags them in a little deeper and goes, “Oh, now I’m all-in. Now I’m –” Now they’ll absorb the rest of it, it’s just regular printing, because their interest is piqued.
And sometimes it can be something on the cover. And like you said, the QR code. And I agree with you. That might take you in another direction and break your concentration. But, yeah, I think that that for me is — what you just want to think about what the message is and then just throw something in somewhere. Maybe it’s an emboss. And I like David’s idea in a book when it’s in the book. People used to do it with, “This is a great book.” And then they get to the middle and they go, “Ba-boom. Ba-boom.” And a double gatefold, it folds out and they’re looking at a spread in New York City. That’s old school, right? Wow. It’s a surprise. But that surprise could be anything. It doesn’t have to be that.
And David’s better at this than me because he’s Mr. Embellishment and stuff. You can do stuff. I think it’s even better if you do stuff and you go, “I didn’t really notice that before. Look at that.” And I just think it takes you deeper. And it tells something about people start to think about the product or who put it together. And it tells you something about the people presenting this to you that they notice the details, they care about the details. And I don’t care what you’re selling. You want someone who’s invested in their own product. And I kind of went in circles, but you know what I mean, right?
[0:18:31] DC: Yeah.
[0:18:32] NT: And it’s sparing. But, yeah, there’s so many things out there.
[0:18:35] DC: Yeah. I mean, it’s also related to the substrates that you use, how they tell a story, you know? And you guys mentioned it before, when you touch it, does it feel like it’s a natural brand versus something? Technology is mostly in like hard cases. And you see these other things that are softer, just softer colors. And so all of those techniques help tell a story without saying the words.
[0:19:09] NT: And some tell a story, like you use off-white paper or paper with a little bit of a fleck or something in it. People go, “Oh, this product’s sustainable.” And now it may not be. It might be made of plastic, but they’re preordained to think, “Oh, little specks and rough. Oh, good for the – oh, I love these people.” You know what I mean? You’re right. Your eyes. And then your eyes tell your hands, “Touch this.” And then your brain goes, “This is what we’re touching.” Bingo.
[0:19:35] DC: Yeah. I was walking around the supermarket looking at all the packaging that had the word natural and just to see, and it’s green and brown. That’s what it looks like. It looks like green, and brown, and flowery colors. Because you’re not going to see a solid black box for granola. It’s not going to attract the right emotions in people to buy it.
Speaking of colors, what is a color that you think is underused in prints but has an incredible emotional impact when done right? The impact doesn’t have to be positive because my answer is not going to make people happy.
[0:20:16] DD: That’s interesting.
[0:20:17] DC: Well, I’ll just do my answer while you’re thinking about it. I don’t like the neon colors. Really, I’m not a neon-color person in general. Never was really into that whole thing, even though I grew up in the 80s. Never really got into the neon thing. I think if I get something that’s hot pink, and there’s a lot of hot pink, I need to understand why. Is it a Victoria’s Secret thing? Okay, if that’s their color, that’s their color. But otherwise, why do I need all of this neon pink on this?
[0:20:48] NT: I’m trying to grab you, but something has to be behind it. There has to be a reason.
[0:20:51] DC: Okay. Again, I’m not really a green person either, but I could live with green more than the neon colors. David?
[0:21:00] DD: Yeah. I mean, I had to put a lot of thought to this. And for me, this is me personally, I don’t know if anybody else has done it, but the color green, color green is rich. The Chinese view green as a money-maker. It’s something that’s important. But then I began to think about green in itself. And I’ve always looked through interior design magazines and looked at the colors that are in there. And that’s exactly what I did here for this exercise, is I went in and I began to look at new colors like sage greens, greens, and creams. And then I began to look at those colors themselves and I began to think of the paint swatches which are screened, or they’re printed and they’re opaque, and there’s no shine to them, and then going in there. And then I began to think of, “Well, how can we reproduce those type of feelings?”
In green – I thought about purple, I thought about really rich colors, reds and such, but they’re a little bit on the dark hue for me in that. I’d like to experiment with greens. I think that there’s a whole hue, a whole range of colors that are within there. And I think it’s pleasing as well.
[0:22:29] DC: Yeah. I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but green, orange, and purple, like the hardest colors to print on digital presses. Is that not correct? If you can at all?
[0:22:39] DD: I’ve never printed a sage green, nor have I had issues with certain greens. I’ve been able to control them digitally by maybe reducing a little bit or increasing a little bit of yellow in there just by a fraction and doing that pre-press. And you can almost fake it. Also, my feeling as far as digital is people want something and they’re willing to accept how that falls. Now, if you’re doing an art poster and you’re doing it on a large press, on an offset press, that might be a little more difficult to achieve and take more time and it’s more critical.
[0:23:17] DC: After you use a spot color, you could just pick the green that you want.
[0:23:20] DD: You could. You could, but then here we are and we’re talking about, “Well, how do we make this green absolutely flat?” How do we take all of the sheen out of that green? That’s how I see that.
[0:23:33] DC: Cool. Noel?
[0:23:35] NT: Well, you’re probably not going to invite me. This is probably the last podcast I’m going to be on because I’m really thinking outside the box and like I’m not here, but you got to listen. I just want to speak to what you said. The other thing is the digital equipment and stuff. There’s so many ways to extend the gamut now. Even on Indie Chrome, you can choose violet or green. If you’re going that way, you can do it by extending. And all the digital presses, you can do that now. It’s very helpful. But you’re right.
[0:24:01] DC: If they have extended gamut. Not all of them do.
[0:24:04] NT: No, they don’t. And it’s a big module. And people who do it go, “This is great,” and then they go, “We’re not doing that because it’s so much set up and stuff.” But yeah, for sure. All right, ready? I’m going to be the crazy one on the pod.
[0:24:16] DC: We’re ready.
[0:24:17] NT: I read it and I go, “Here’s my answer.” What’s my color? Just hear me out because I wrote notes. It’s black. Oh, and black. My first bullet point. Snotted or 2X black. Rich black, never. CMYK with black, no. Why? This is why. It’s counterintuitive, but everything looks brighter by way of contrast. When I have done this, I have had printers make me a shirt that says plus black. Or as a joke, put it on my bill. You owe us extra money for extra black ink. I want it spitting out of the fountain. But the theory is you can’t do it in all cases.
When I print a book, if it’s, “Oh, this page is black.” “Whoa, cyan.” “No, it’s 2X black.” Everything next to it looks better. In a photo, they go, “The highlights, can you open it up?” I shouldn’t imitate people. “In the quarter tone, let me go and sit on your computer.” Go get a stale bagel, sit here, go back in the ’70s TV, watch that, and then just snot the black. Right? And they go, “See, it’s better. I was right. What did you do?” Never mind. Because it creates contrast and it gives you shape. The quarter-tone looks better next to snotted black than it does next to, “We’re right where we should be with the black?” And then not underused, and it’s just about every job.
Black is in every job. It’s not like, “Well, we don’t have black. We can’t –” it’s in every job. And then I know it’s stupid, but shape, contrast, and in your face. And it sounds stupid, and I know you probably wanted me to pick a color color. And I also thought –
[0:25:59] DC: Well, black is a color. Well, the absence of color, but you’re allowed to choose whatever color you want.
[0:26:02] NT: I know, but it’s because of – I’ve seen it so many times and I’m going – everybody’s like, “That’s just black.” I’m going, “If you knew how important that black was, I’d take that black out and run screaming from the plan.”
[BREAK]
[0:26:17] DD: Are you a frustrated creative and want a print partner that takes an artisan approach? Do you want to be inspired with techniques that will enhance your next printed or packaging production? Or are you a printer that has unique abilities and need a liaison to enhance your exposure? I’m David Drucker, owner of highresolution printing. I am an independent creative consultant with access to every printing technology out there.
I work hand in hand with creatives and printers, creating projects that are complex, and require meticulous detail, and precision, from concept to completion. Want to see what I mean? Go to guruofprinting.com and get inspired.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:27:00] DC: I will tell you right now that black is the color that I judge printers on. If they could do a solid black and I don’t see modeling or streaking or anything like that, then we’ll send work over that has solids in it. Otherwise, I’m not doing it. I actually think it is a great test of a printer if they can create a smooth solid black.
[0:27:23] NT: It’s your baseline, right? Against it, everything. Oh, well, that’s right. It’s amazing what goes on.
[0:27:28] DC: And a black with a spot finish on it is one of my favorite techniques as the text on a paper that is just there. It reveals itself in the light, that’s pretty cool. I do have one more color in my notes that I wanted to share, and it’s actually white space, which is even crazier than yours. Leaving white space on a freaking page.
[0:27:50] NT: 100%.
[0:27:51] DC: It can be an incredible driver of emotions. Think of a solid white page with one word and courier type on it. It’s just going to be – it’s going draw you in and make you just wanna embrace whatever is coming next.
[0:28:08] NT: Every other book I see now with designers, I go, “What is that?” And then I see it printed. It’s a spread. You got an image. It might go one inch into the right page. It’s on the left page and then everything’s white. And you look at it and you go, “Well, that’s powerful.” I go, “White.” And it draws back to the image. You’re 100% right.
[0:28:27] DC: Yeah, I like white space. When I first started in advertising, I had to be schooled that white space is a design element. I didn’t realize that until I was told. And also, paper is a color, which I didn’t consider until I was schooled again by the creative directors. Okay, last question. What is your advice for designers and file creators out there that could help them create even more impactful emotional connections through print? David, we will start with you, sir.
[0:29:00] DD: Sure, and we’ve repeated this over and over and over again. Speak with your printer while you’re in a design stage. A printer has so much more experience at what that end result is going to be. In my instances, I’ve said what I wanted to say in giving it a direction that I want to go into. And that has turned and changed a design into that direction. A client might say, “We really didn’t think about that in putting this together.”
We have somebody screaming at our ear too to get design done, and we have to answer the people as well. But sometimes there’s a better solution, there’s a simpler solution, and the right solution speaks to you. And we’re going to go right back to that first question about telling a story and how that does that. And it really does it by communication.
Our communication, your communication with the printer and the designer, is increasing that story. It adds more value to that story. If we can all take a file and go print, I’d say that’s what 90% of printers do. But when you have an influence to add to a production, it tells a bigger story. It not only tells a bigger story now, but the next production gives you more insight as to, “Well, what are we going to do now?”
I mean, we’ve said it over and over again, your collaboration with your supplier is key. And you’re also going to help your supplier. As a designer, you’re going to help your supplier to go for different goals than just, “Hey, we’re a printer and we’re going to take your job. We’re going to put it on paper.” You might change paper, you might change – I’ve even changed rotation at points to get something a little better. And let’s try it. I mean, do you remember Sid Rapoport?
[0:31:21] DC: Yes, why do I know that name? From advertising.
[0:31:22] DD: Well, Rapoport printing down on Hudson Street?
[0:31:26] DC: Okay, yeah. That’s why I know.
[0:31:27] DD: And I was told to follow this guy around for a week, and I didn’t. He hated me telling him. But he was doing a lot of fashion, duotones, tritones, and such. And I’d watch him walk up to press. And where I would think you’d raise density by adding some more black, he would do a combination of colors. And in that, as you begin to see a duet tone and a tritone, even a quadtone, totally different than anybody else. Now you have the opportunity, me, 42 years later, to begin to introduce that to people who never knew him and don’t know that technique. Well, doesn’t that begin, start the conversation with your client of having them think differently?
[0:32:16] DC: Yeah, absolutely.
[0:32:18] DD: That would never happen if we just didn’t come out and say, “Let’s do this differently. Let’s try it.”
[0:32:24] DC: Right. But you have to have customers who come to you and say, “I want to create a piece that’s going to stay on someone’s desk up until the event or something like that.” And then you need a printer who’s like, “Okay, send me a file and I’ll print it for you.” And then you have other people who are like, “All right, let’s talk a little bit more about this. Is it going to be mailed? Do you want to put a specialty thing on it? Do you want to give them a gift with it?” I mean, there’s a million different ways to address that if you’re open, you have a collaborative printer.
[BREAK]
[0:32:59] DC: Girls Who Print provides women in print and graphic communications with information resources, events, and mentorship to help them navigate their careers and the industry. As the largest independent network of women in print and a nonprofit organization, our global mission to provide resources, skill-building, education, and support for women to lead, inspire, and empower has never been stronger or more accessible. Through our member platform and program, as well as regional groups forming around the world, your access to Girls Who Print is just a click away. Gentlemen, you are most welcome to join us as allies. Get involved and get empowered today. Link in the show notes.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:33:45] DC: Noel, your advice for designers that could help them create even more impactful emotional connections through print.
[0:33:55] NT: Well, I’m going to get emotional. I’m going to say the same thing in a different way. And I have bullet points, but they’re going to make sense, right? Understand the goal or the desired result or desired response as a starting point. Assess and understand your assets or content, their strengths, and flaws when considering process and materials you must specify.
This is the most important part. I know, I got issues. Seek, find, and leverage a print partner that can guide, then bring it to life. You have to be prepared to trust, share, feedback, push back, try not to hit someone. Disagree lightly, argue if you must, cheerful, polite, polished repertoire and useless banter to stroke someone’s ego is for a lady’s tea. Get your ass out, then listen and do this back and forth until you and your partner are excited about it and chomping at the bit to get started.
And when you enlist a true partner, not just someone to take your specs created in a vacuum and try to make it the best it can be, you will just make something. And it may be technically accurate to the specs, but chances are it won’t embody what you’re trying to do. And it’s the same thing David said but just a little more crazy because that’s me, but it’s the same thing.
[0:35:20] DC: I will add that, as a designer, understanding what the results are that you want to happen is super important. If we look at a customer, if you have a project that’s a customer journey, well, the first thing you want people to see is to get them interested and excited about it. So talking to your printer about what are some of the techniques or things we can do that are interesting and exciting for people, which could be tearing something open or having a 3D thing on it.
[0:35:53] NT: But ask. The key thing you said is ask.
[0:35:56] DC: Yes, of course.
[0:35:57] NT: Those guys are coming out of school, they’re like, “I’m going to create it, you’re gonna make it.” We’re not speaking the same language. We can’t help you if you odn’t open up, right?
[0:36:05] DC: Absolutely. Yeah.
[0:36:06] NT: What does it look like, feel like, smell like? And then we’ll get going.
[0:36:08] DC: Yeah. In the same sense, designers also have to do research. They say that blue is a comforting color and red is like an action color, you know? Learn your color theory and what motivates people to do things through color. And we’ve already touched on paper and touching things and raised varnishes, or text, or whatever it might be, something that feels different. Have you ever felt the sandpaper paper? I mean, you touch it, “What is going on here?” You know?
Understanding the emotions you want to elicit in people is the first step. Then, I would agree, the next step is talking to your printer and your paper merchant, which we haven’t mentioned. Paper merchants are extremely helpful, and they will be friends with everybody. You can find a local paper merchant or the closest one to you and ask them for print samples. They’ll even create samples on the stock that you want to use, if they’re still doing that. They used to do that. And you can get the paper promotions from them, which is another way to see all of the techniques that are out there. And then sit with it. How does it make you feel? How does it make you feel?
If you’re thinking about going on a vacation, what is it that you want to – I mean, I’m assuming you want to see the blues of the Caribbean. If you’re going to the mountains, you want to see the desert sand and those – it’s like Sierra. Is that a color? Why am I thinking of the Sierra crayon for some reason? Like that red, browny color of the rocks when the sun’s going down. I mean, that makes you have an emotion or something vintage to remind you of your childhood or something like that. Just remember that print is a visual medium and it is a tool for helping people to connect with things, not just buying something from you or selling something to you. Even if they’re doing that, there is a way to make people excited about projects and a way to just make them like, “What do I have this in my house for?”
[0:38:23] NT: I want to expand on something you said. You talked about the paper people, the reps, but before that, everyone should, the designer of baking, it should have their cool S-pile like I do. It’s a trick. Show me what you really like. Oh, you’ve got some great stuff. You begin to get a feel for what they like. Well, this a good book or a brochure. But look at this. Look at foil. Or look at that. Or I love this paper. Or I love that. Get a sense. And you should get those from the paper companies, from your print partners. You should get as much stuff as you can because you’ll begin to see things that will interest you and they might be things you think, “Well, that would speak to my audience if it was our logo that way.” And you can’t have enough stuff to influence you.
And the paper women or the men are a good place to start. And they buy a lot of my jobs. I’m sure they buy some of David’s jobs. This happened to me the other day. A woman called me and goes, “The woman was in here and I’ve been asking you and she gave me this thing, and it’s perfect for what I want.” And then the rep called me and goes, “No, I just happened to have it in my bag.” She goes, “I can’t get the book –” she pulled it out. That stuff.
And you know what I mean? That’s great. And what goes around comes around. But you can also – for people like David and I, you can get a sense from who they are, and what they like, and what they don’t like because you should be making something that – you know what I mean? You got to start somewhere.
[0:39:43] DC: Yeah, absolutely. David, any final words?
[0:39:46] DD: You know, I’m beginning to speak to more and more people outside the New York area. There are only so many samples that you can possibly send out, most of which there are so many limited samples that I send to FedEx that it comes back to me. But what I’ve been doing is I’ve been putting together anywhere from 20 to 50 images of work that I’ve done and putting it into an email.
Someone is walking through that like it’s a museum. And somewhere in there, some piece is going to start a conversation. And that makes everything flow that much easier. They might ask, “Well, how did you do this? And why did you do that?” And then they begin to hear what kind of character you are, and how to use this stuff.
[0:40:37] NT: They did that yesterday. Someone wanted to go, “Can we see some books?” And I thought, “Well, I’ll just send them a couple. You want me to mail them to you?” No. I sat down, I go, “I have all our work professionally shot.” I took three hours, 20 projects. Books. You would know the name brand. And in there is shots of the thread of this, of that. And I started looking at them going, “You do nice work.” But you’re right. They get it.
[0:40:59] DC: You do a book about your books.
[0:41:01] NT: But they get it, and then they see something else. They’re asking. You’re taking them – like David said. I interrupted you, David, but that’s exactly – you did the same thing, right? They’ll learn something about it. They might pick something out that you can do.
[0:41:14] DC: Right. Well, I would say that you elicited excitement and adventure, and wanting to have the feeling of making something that beautiful for myself or my company in people. And that was the topic of this podcast. Everything you need to connect with Noel, and David, and me is in the show notes.
And thank you, gentlemen, again, for a thought-provoking conversation. And until next time, everybody, print long, Make It With Print long and prosper.
[OUTRO]
[0:41:50] DC: Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars, and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com, we’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcasts. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
[END]
