[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:00] DC: This podcast is sponsored by XMPie, transforming communications and print businesses across the globe for more than 20 years. Learn how they can help you enhance, and grow your services at xmpie.com, and through the links in the show notes.
It takes the right skills and the right innovation to design and manage meaningful print marketing solutions. Welcome to Podcasts from the Printerverse, where we explore all facets of print and marketing that creates stellar communications and sales opportunities for business success. I’m your host, Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse. Thanks for tuning in. Listen long and prosper.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:45] DC: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Podcast From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador. I have two guests on the podcast today. I would like to welcome Rolf Schlösser, a system consultant at Team Jansen. Team Jansen is a Xerox reseller and provider of smart marketing and workplace services and solution based near Cologne, Germany. Under its Team Jansen ProServices division, it offers tailored print and digital services powered by XMPie and serves as a research and development lab striving to pioneer new workflows and print production solutions for its clients.
We also have Christoph Grunicke, he is the business development channel manager at XMPie. XMPie is a leading provider of software for cross-media, variable data, and one-to-one marketing. They offer solutions to help businesses create and manage highly effective direct marketing and omnichannel campaigns. Welcome to the podcast, gentlemen.
[0:01:54] RS: Yeah, thank you very much.
[0:01:55] CG: Thank you.
[0:01:56] RS: Glad to have an opportunity to talk a little bit about my, more or less daily work.
[0:02:02] DC: Excellent. Christoph, I actually want to start with you. Can you let our listeners know a little bit more about your work at XMPie, how you support your customers, and about your partnership with Rolf and Team Jansen?
[0:02:16] CG: My name is Christoph, Christoph Grunicke as you would pronounce it. I’m based in Germany, in West Germany, close to the Dutch border if that says something to you. What I do at XMPie is, I’m the business development and channel manager. Meaning, I am working with different channel partners to sell XMPie products. And the business development component comes in whenever I have to think about how to sell as much as possible. So, I’m kind of doing a hybrid sales business development, sometimes even pre-sales in XMPie.
So, what’s the story about me meeting Team Jansen? Of course, Team Jansen is one of our most strategic customers. It’s not the biggest customer we have in Germany, but it’s, I’d say, one of the most strategic. One of the reasons is that, Team Jansen is not only, as you mentioned, is not only a print service provider, but they are also a local Xerox seller, and they’re selling a multitude of different Xerox equipment from office, workplace solutions, to production printing. I’m sure, Rolf can elaborate on that much better than I do.
I’ve met Rolf especially way back a long time ago when I was not working for XMPie, but for a printing company. And this printing company was also an XMPie user. What XMPie does is, every other year, we do user group meetings in different locations, different cities in the U.S., and Europe, everywhere. Yes, we met in one of those user group meetings. Then, one thing led to another, and I started working with XMPie, because why dig for gold when you can sell the shovel. That’s how I kept working with Team Jansen on a business, professional, sales, customer kind of relationship. That’s how it went.
[0:04:02] DC: Thank you so much. So, Rolf, you are in a unique situation. Team Jansen is a Xerox reseller with a separate company called Team Jansen ProServices, that offers print and digital services powered by XMPie. As we say in the United States, you’re getting high off your own supply, which is awesome. I want to focus our conversation about ProServices, but before we do that, since you are a reseller, can you please let the listeners know more about Team Jansen itself and the service that you offer there?
[0:04:37] RS: Yes, certainly. Glad to have the chance to say something about our company.
I have to be a little bit careful. We are one of the biggest resellers in Germany, maybe even the biggest one, because we have more than 10,000 devices in the market. This is more or less 8,000 are office systems. Even through the pandemic, we had a little swap of the focus. Before, there was a lot of more printing, and meanwhile, it changed to some kind of paperless office. So, we offer also some solution around that.
Team Jansen offers since 12 years, but when I started there, also, the option to our customers to use and to get used with XMPie. So, that was also the time when we started to get our own XMPie server to do some internal things. So, we have an internal web shop to prepare some personalized brochures for XMPie and Xerox products, but also to offer a kind of sneak preview of what can be done in the shop for the customer statistic. Because if you want seriously to start with XMPie and uStore, it takes not less money.
At least in Germany, we have some print houses. Do not dare to invest more than €30,000 for this solution. So, we made the offer, “You can test it without any risk, with our server. And if you’re comfortable with this solution, and this is what you are looking for, then you can buy your own product.”
[0:06:22] DC: I wholeheartedly agree with that strategy, which is why I said, getting high on your own supply. Because if you don’t believe in the product, and you can’t show people the value that they could add to their data-driven communications with a platform like that, without having to make an investment first, people have to take a lot of chances. Although, we all know that XMPie is sort of the first name that everybody thinks of when they think of personalization and things of that matter, variable data printing. But it’s one thing to understand that there’s a company out there that can help you. It’s another thing to understand what goes into actually creating a job that can go through with those capabilities. What led you to the decision to start Team Jansen ProServices?
[0:07:16] RS: Let me say some kind of secret project, where we talked about a lot of the possibilities with XMPie, and also, of course, the Xerox workflow software,
for example, FreeFlow Core can offer. What we realized when we tried to sell XMPie and some other things, was that, you can talk a lot about the possibilities. One of my colleagues said it in a very nice way. So., we offer a high-end kitchen for a big local, but we do not teach them how to cook. So, they have the possibility, but do not know how to use it. That’s where we set our focus and said, “Yes, come to me. What kind of desert, what kind of dish do you want to have? We can do it for you. We show it, you can test it, and that is fine.” This is one of the primary intentions to set ProServices, to do some more, and use it as a kind of – also as a lab on the one side for development, on the one side like, maybe the one or the other can still remember PARC, Xerox PARC. Where they developed beautiful things, but didn’t have an idea what to do with it. We have a different approach on that, hopefully.
Then, we already did something for the Beemaker Association in the past, but with a different print house. For a private reason, the print house said to quit their business and to retire. That’s the point when we said, “Hmm, we have a beautiful engine, a printer engine to produce 20 million labels each year. We have already prepared some kind of workflow solution for this job. So, why don’t we start up to do our own business on that special part?”
[0:09:13] DC: We had a conversation before this podcast and the whole story about the German Beekeepers Association is really fascinating. First of all, I want to say thank you so much for helping bees. We need help. People need to help bees and help beekeepers. So, thank you first of all for that. The flowers, thank you. The stuff that grows on planet Earth, thank you to you. So, thank you so much for that. Can you walk us through the initial challenges they faced with the way they were doing things before you took over this work?
[0:09:49] RS: Yes, certainly. It still causes a kind of headache when we’re talking about it, because it was a very, very old -fashioned way. So, the Beekmaker Association collected each order for the beemakers, or to say, more precise. So, the association is one part, this is our customer. But the Beemaker Association consists of more than 100,000 beekeepers. And each of the beekeepers himself can order his own personalized labels for the honey he produces with his bees. That’s the background.
So, each beemaker can order these labels, which is a kind of graduation and qualification for very good honey, which is in the jars. So, they order it sometimes per fax, sometimes per snail mail, very seldom per email. It was already when I got into this business, it was a huge improvement for them to be able to have a PDF to set their orders. What they did, they sent the PDF in the Beemaker Association, they printed it out and copied the text in their own system. So, it was digitalization on a very special level, let me call it this way.
Then, once a month, we get an Excel sheet, or in that case, the customer gets an Excel sheet with all the orders. It was per month when we were talking about 20 million labels per year. It was two and a half million, in average, labels, which were in this Excel sheet. Then, the Excel sheet had to be converted later at that time in an InDesign document, and also prepared because it was a mixture of offset pre-print and digital print. Maybe it was even more old-fashioned.
Then, we got the request and it took – after delivering of the Excel sheet, it took 60 hours for the person who prepared the data to get approved, which was sent back to the Beemaker Association. When we got the request, “Can we optimize something on that part?” Then we got a deep thought, and, “Yes, it’s possible. It’s really good possible.” What we did to say it in some small sentence, we can go deeper in it if you like to. We prepared this Excel sheet for an upload in uStore, which is the store from XMPie. He prepared the labels and this is just a process which took five minutes instead of 60 hours.
[0:12:40] DC: Sixty hours you said?
[0:12:41] RS: Sixty hours, yes, each month.
[SPONSOR MESSAGE]
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Print Media Centr offers an array of unique opportunities that amplify your message and support your mission across the Printerverse. Let’s work together, bring the right people together, and move the industry forward together. Link in the show notes. Engage long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUES]
[0:13:47] DC: You cut the workflow from 60 hours to five minutes.
[0:13:52] RS: Exactly.
[0:13:53] DC: Ah. Christoph, that must make you very happy to hear that story.
[0:13:57] CG: Yes. I was about to raise my hand because this is the situation where I think I can explain something as well. Because this really shows how powerful XMPie is in the hands of the right person. Obviously, Rolf and Tim Jansen are very able users, and they know exactly what they can do with XMPie.
To clarify what we deliver here and what Tim Jansen delivers to their customer is, they’re not
only delivering a personalized experience, or some label, which you put on your jar, they really deliver a massive improvement from what they have before, and what they will get in the future. Because what happens sometimes in these kinds of projects, especially when it’s about digitalization, especially when it’s in Germany or central Europe in general, because not everybody is very keen on building digital processes here in this country. What happens usually is that, something changes, something gets digitized because somebody made a suggestion to digitize something.
Then. the improvement is usually or sometimes not what you expected. It’s sometimes like, “Oh, we needed 10 minutes, and now we need nine.” It’s not like really a big improvement. But with a solution like XMPie and with able users such as Rolf and Team Jansen, you can really outshine your competition by introducing not only the platform on the capability, but really thinking about, okay, how does this all work? So, obviously, it can only work with automation and XMPie is really underlining this concept by delivering completely automated end-to-end solution.
So, from the storefront, which is user-friendly, which is catered to an audience,
which may or may not order print on a daily basis, to an order management system, to automation tools who really handle the production, to APIs which handle the commercial aspects of something, also a project like this is really end-to -end. It’s really the only way in this industry to get customer on board of digital printing and digital experience. That’s what I very firmly believe.
Second, and this is also something Rolf will probably talk about a little bit later, but I just want to tease it. This whole concept of personalization in the printing industry, we always talk about data, we always talk about design, and these kinds of things. But something which is not talked about a lot and not talked about often enough is the aspect of automation. Because if you think about it, personalization and individualization without automation is, I don’t want to say useless, but it’s very hard to do. Because if you don’t automate certain things in this whole concept of personalization and personalized print, especially
Then, at some point, you’re going to get a problem. At some point, you have to deal with so much data and you have to deal with so much iterations and changes in these data, that at some point, you end up in the same situation the customer was before. Like Rolf said, they had to work 60 hours to get a few labels done. If you don’t automate enough, the same can happen in the digital space, of course, because at some point, you really pile up so much data and so much work that you are on a bigger scale, of course, but you still have the same problem.
A solution like XMPie platform, XMPie is really focused on this automation aspect. So, we’re very happy that we have a customer in the form of Team Jansen who is really understanding the concept, and is also – and this is also something which is very important, of course, is able to set to the customer.
[0:17:40] DC: Yes. I mean, this is such a perfect case study because, I mean,
what I’m hearing is you basically took the German Beekeepers Association from a horse and buggy, and gave them a Ferrari of marketing, you know. I mean, just the fact that there’s 100,000 beekeepers alone that need labels for their own honey with their own information on it alone would probably make my head explode as a production person in an advertising agency. I would probably be paralyzed and not have any idea how to execute something like that. So, you know, sometimes you can look at it as we’re just trading one set of problems for another set of problems.
But in this case, the problems are to overcome, end up making everything better as opposed to just putting band-aids on the old process. But there’s still a balance there of – and to your excellent point, Christoph, of customization and efficiency. Like, is it too much customization? Is it stopping the efficiency? Is it making things slow down? Is there a workflow story in there, an automation story to tell? So, with that, Rolf, as you mentioned, the beekeepers are now able to print 20 million labels a year with your assistants. Many of them are unique in many aspects, depending upon how many beekeepers order the labels for their honey. But how did you bridge this gap to keep it honestly cost-effective and efficient so they were still getting what they need when they needed it. Although, something tells me, they were getting it a lot faster with your help.
[0:19:29] RS: So, on the one hand, we calculated everything and said, “Okay. We need just – not even five people for doing the job after that, first step of automatization, I have to say, because there are still some more to come. So, for example, when I described this situation, it was that the Excel file was uploaded in uStore, but this was done by one person on the printer side, then they generated PDFs.
Meanwhile, we were able, and this is more simple than I talk about. We’re able to push the Beemaker Association to have the online shop for the beemaker himself. What I learned from the supermarket, they shift the work to the customer.
[0:20:20] DC: So, each beekeeper has their own account and can go in and order their own labels? Is that what you’re saying?
[0:20:26] RS: Exactly. Meanwhile, this is possible. So, he’s responsible what he enters, what he wants on his labels. Of course, it will still be checked by the Beemaker Association. There is some nonsense on it, that the Beemaker can do by himself. This is another part of acceleration, because as I described, we got once a month these Excel files. So, we had even 12 jobs a year, and it took very long for the beemaker to get his labels. We estimated, it’s about eight or, in worst case, 12 weeks after he ordered it, and he got the delivery of his order. This is nowadays – I cannot find some nice word. It’s not acceptable.
Now, when we shifted to our own shop, it just takes one week from the order of the beemaker to get his delivery. This was one major step of automatization and acceleration for the beekeepers there. They are all very happy with it. As Christoph mentioned, due to the good-user expectation and modern interface of the XMPie uStore, so the web-to -print portal. It’s different if you have a web shop or web-to-print portal, Because after the order is set, the PDFs for that order will, on the fly be generated.
Also, meanwhile, each label is different not only because of a control ID, which is printed on it, but also for a QR code, where we maybe later have the chance to talk about. So, it has to be very unique. Now, it’s even more than in the first round important to have an automatic workflow behind it. So, nobody wants to deal with 200 PDFs files a week, make the imposition, and put it on the engine. This is for material A, this is for material B, and this is for material C. All has to be liquid workflow, which should run very smoothly. There, we have the perfect tools on it, and put a little bit of brain work in it to set it up this way.
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[EPISODE CONTINUES]
[0:23:25] DC: Christoph, there was an advantage here because Rolf and his team obviously are Xerox resellers, and they were using XMPie in order to show off the capabilities of the Xerox presses they have, and also to be a reseller. They had an advantage in the fact that they were pretty well-versed in how to use XMPie. So, my question to you is, did you provide any support to Rolf while they were setting up this pretty massive customer?
And for everybody out there who does not have the resources that Rolf has and the expertise of years of using XMPie, how do you support regular people out there? You’re not even a regular person anymore. You’re in the upper levels of expert user there. How do you support regular people, customers, printers out there who might actually have an opportunity like this or be able to disrupt an antiquated process for anybody out there, whether it’s labels or for direct mail? How do you support them with a project as big as this?
[0:24:39] CG: That’s an excellent question. Then, sometimes I ask myself the
same thing, but I always – we always come up with a solution, of course. So, first, step by step. Let me first maybe give you some context of what XMPie uStore is, because that word has been dropped a couple of times, and maybe not everybody knows exactly what it is.
As Rolf mentioned, XMPie uStore is our web-to-print solution. So, some people ask, “Oh, XMPie, as you mentioned, is a platform for communication, for personalization. So, why does XMPie also engage in web-to-print? What’s the connection here?” The connection, of course, again, is the personalization. Because what XMPie uStore is, it’s not only a web shop system, which allows users to buy print online. It’s also very deeply connected into the XMPie personalization platform.
So, by using XMPie uStore, which by the way, it’s marketed as XMPie StoreFlow. So, if you look it up, then you will usually see StoreFlow, like sometimes, I have to switch my brain. By using XMPie StoreFlow, you are also using the XMPie personalization, and you can bring those two together, and then provide the services like Rolf provides. That means, it’s not only designed in a way that it can fulfill orders and create personalized content. It’s really designed in a way that we thought about the whole process, the end-to-end things. So, somebody goes online, somebody wants to customize their label, somebody wants to print their label, and this flows through the system and XMPie is really doing everything.
So, if you invest in XMPie, you really invested in the whole workflow. That may be a little bit of off context. So, if Rolf speaks of StoreFlow or uStore, you now know, it’s about web-to-print, end-to-end e-commerce system. We did support Team Jansen quite a bit. We’re very lucky to have Rolf who has probably longer experience with XMPie than I do. So, he knows his ways, he knows what to do, and he also knows – and this is something which is also connected to the other question which is support. He also knows, okay, this is my limit of understanding. So now, I need to go to XMPie, or I need to go to someone who can explain to me what’s the next step. They can execute the next step, usually, on their own. But sometimes, it takes a little bit of consultancy, or a little bit of some meeting here, meetings there, to help get something going.
That really is something what XMPie does for every customer. So, we do have – if you
talk about support, of course, it means things like customer support, what happens if something breaks, what happens something – the customer doesn’t understand, or where is the button which formerly was blue, it’s now red, and why is that? That’s the classical support. But then, of course, support also means explaining to the customers what they can do, exploring the system, exploring the limits of the system, teaching them how to use APIs, for example, or if it needs to be, offer them solutions or offer them tailor-made bespoke applications together with our team, which is distributed all over the world.
We provide those kinds of services to customers. But usually, if I’m honest, especially in Europe, most customers, they need the training. They don’t need to develop it by us, but they usually ask for the training. That’s what we do with local resources and all the different languages and everything.
[0:28:11] RS: Maybe I can add some points to which Christoph said. It’s totally correct. So, we had in very special case, where my knowledge ends, and this is sometimes not very deep, to be honest. We had always discussion with some guys from XMPie, they have special [inaudible 0:28:28], this part of XMPie. Because if I have to describe XMPie for a new customer, I think it’s everything. Each head has a different meaning and thinking. They know something about XMPie, but not the complete truth because it’s such a wide range of products, which XMPie offers and supports.
Sometimes, yes, I do have to think out of the box. This is what worked really well in cooperation with Christoph and some other guys for the European market. What we learned as a reseller is, also what Christoph said, you first have to teach the people what is possible. One of our tasks is also, from Team Jansen is to say, “Hello. If you have some questions about XMPie, feel free to call us if you have a problem with which we do not see a smart solution. Talk to us, we think about it, we offer something and you just have to buy it when you are satisfied.”
It’s strange because the most interesting projects we got by coincidence. So, one story I can remember is that we had to produce on our printer some paper vouchers. Let me say, the funny thing is, a customer from us already used XMPie, a desktop version, but didn’t get the idea. So, what they did, they pre-printed the vouchers in 4C, on an offset printing machine, then printed one side in black, and after that, they printed digital back hood in it. On the outside, there were different motifs. For example, for spring, for summer, for whatever. The final step, there was a finishing on that paper. So, they handled it four times. Then, they got to us with the pre-printed paper and said, “Hmm, we’re doing this so complicated.” The honest answer was, “Because we do it sincere this way.”
Sometimes, that’s what I wanted to say, sometimes the customer doesn’t think about optimization because they produce it since a couple of years. Then, when I said, “You don’t have to do something in offset printing, you are more flexible if you do everything digital printing and everything based on the XMPie production.” After that, we also did a short presentation of it. They started to offer their customer also a back-to-print portal based on XMPie to get more efficient in the production part as well.
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[EPISODE CONTINUES]
[0:31:50] DC: So, XMPie offers a robust suite of digital marketing tools, which a lot of people are not aware of, at least when I speak to them. As I mentioned in the beginning, they think of XMPie first for personalization, print-on-demand, data-driven marketing, things of that nature. Which digital marketing is data-driven marketing, but printers don’t think that they can get a piece of that pie when I don’t understand, they already have the files, they could repurpose them in a million different ways.
So, I’m glad that you are doing that, Rolf, in your own way. Which tools of the digital marketing tools are you using for the German Beekeepers Association? and I know that you have some pretty interesting results about your use of QR codes and things like that.
[0:32:38] RS: Who told you that?
[0:32:40] DC: You did on our preliminary phone call.
[0:32:41] RS: Of course. Of course, I did. Yes. When we started with the online shop,
there was also an idea from the association itself to have a QR code on the label. We thought, “Okay, QR code is always nice. But why?” Then, I said, “Yes, we want to have the information for the beekeeper himself on a platform.” The first idea was to have it internally. Then, I discussed it in my company, and I said, “No, we can do even more.”
So now, it’s the QR code, each individual on every label, and it refers – Christoph can give the XMPie explanation to a personalized URL, but it’s not personalized for a person, it’s personalized for the jar, for the honey jar. You got a nice view, you got the information, and thank you very much for buying this glass with 500 grams of honey, brought for your beemaker called blah, blah, blah, wherein you see the information. Even if he enters an email address and or a website, it’s also already linked dynamically to further information. Everything, what is individualized on the label, you find on this page which provides nice images.
We are just at the beginning of that, because already, some questions came up for, “Can each beemaker have even more individualized web page to get some feedbacks?” Now, we have, you mentioned it, a nice bridge between printing and the product, and digital transfer, to a web page.
[0:34:26] DC: So, XMPie is generating all of those QR codes, those individual QR codes. You’re just entering a website and it spits it out or you – whatever it is that you want to enter, whether it’s a YouTube video where it’s the beekeeper showing you how they extracted that honey or whatever it might be. So, you need minimal information and then it spits out the QR codes, and then, I’m assuming it marries it with the data, and that’s why these jobs went from 60 hours to five minutes even though they weren’t using QR codes at that time, I’m assuming. Christoph, that’s just one of the tools in the digital suite.
I think you guys know at XMPie, I’m a little obsessed with this area of your platform, because like I said, I think it’s really underused. And I think that – I don’t think it’s an upsell, I think it’s added value to the customer. It’s a customer convenience to also get some digital marketing from their printers if they already have the information. So, can you expand a little on some of those other tools that are in the suite, please?
[0:35:38] CG: Yes. So, what Rolf mentioned is using QR code to connect to the digital world, basically. XMPie is not only an engine which drives personalized print and provides web-to-print portals. We are also a very big player in the customer experience in omnichannel space. Meaning, that we connect personalization, we connect data, and programmatically build workflows, which span across different media channels and give our customers the opportunity to really engage with the brand, or to really build a very powerful customer journey.
One of those tools which we provide in that space is XMPie Circle. XMPie Circle is a, I want to say, a workflow tool, but it’s not for like technical workflows such as converting a PDF or doing position, it’s for direct marketing, it’s for marketing. So, in the XMPie Circle, you are able to connect the data to any data source. You are able to create business logic. So, what happens if – first of all, what happens if a customer wants to have a print piece, or if a customer clicks on a link, or if a customer visits a website. Will it trigger an email, or will it two weeks later send another postcard, or something like that. It will also help to – not only the production of this of this campaign, but also the analytics. This is all done in one workflow system, which we call XMPie Circle.
[0:37:10] DC: Excellent. Well, if you are in the market to take a test drive on XMPie or check out some Xerox equipment, you could find Rolf at Team Jansen. And if you are interested in taking them up on their amazing digital printing and marketing services, if you’re a customer out there, get in touch with Rolf too. And hopefully, they can set you up like they did the German Beekeepers Association. And they can go back to making honey and not worrying about how their labels are going to produce and leave that to the professionals. Everything you need to connect with Rolf and Kristoff is in the show notes.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thanks for everyone who listened to the podcast. Until next time, print long and prosper.
[END OF EPISODE]
[0:38:05] DC: Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars, and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com, we’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcasts. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
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