EPISODE 786
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:05] DC: Time is one thing we can’t make more of, but we can make more of what we do with it. Welcome to Time Management Tips in 20, where productivity expert, Sarah Ohanesian, founder of SO Productive, helps you take back your day one smart habit at a time.
In each episode, Sarah shares practical, proven strategies to help you prioritize what matters, get out of overwhelm, and get more done without working more hours. Because when you use your time with purpose, productivity becomes less about output and more about making space for what matters most at work and at home. So, let’s begin. Your time starts now.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:54] DC: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Podcasts From The Printerverse, more specifically Time Tips in 20, which means that I am here with the time Sherpa herself, Sarah Ohanesian from SO Productive. Hello, Sarah.
[0:01:09] SO: Hello. How’s it going?
[0:01:12] DC: It is hot. It is a hot summer. Is it hot by you?
[0:01:16] SO: Like 1004 degrees.
[0:01:18] DC: Excellent.
[0:01:19] SO: Yeah, we’re just hanging inside, and sounds like we’re checking email and getting through our inbox from what I heard from you.
[0:01:25] DC: Yes. And it’s so funny that my email just dinged as we were starting to record. So, we’ve had this conversation a few times, but in one of the podcast episodes that we recorded, you mentioned the getting to inbox zero.
[0:01:45] SO: Yes.
[0:01:46] DC: And it reminded me of something I heard. Okay, everybody, just hold on for it. Kim Kardashian actually did an interview with Forbes, and it was a business interview. I mean, no matter what you think of her, she’s a billionaire with a zillion businesses, and she did what she did. And they were asking her how she manages all of it and how she does not go crazy. And she had a practice that obviously there’s a zillion people emailing her, but they email her assistants and her person, right? But of the emails that she actually receives herself in her inbox, her personal rule is that if she’s not going to do anything with it right then and there, she deletes it. End of story. And she goes to sleep every night with no emails in her inbox.
And I was like, “Okay. Well, that’s a little weird because I almost use my email like a storage bin more than I do for timely correspondence.” But the other day I went into the I’m doing it. I’m going to see if I can do it. And now, Kim Kardashian inbox zero literally meant there was nothing in her inbox. Nothing.
Now, I still have 4,000 emails in my inbox, but none were left unread. So, I had read all of them and then sent you a screenshot and said, “Look, I have no new emails.” And I was all excited. But the exercise wasn’t to still have 4,756 emails in my inbox, I assume.
[0:03:28] SO: So Deborah, I love that this happened, and I was so excited to see your email. And it comes in in all caps with about seven exclamation points behind it. When you get that kind of an email from Deborah, you just perk up and immediately smile. I love that.
And I think there’s a real big difference here and what we’re talking about in terms of true inbox zero, like there’s nothing in there versus the emails have been processed. And I want to recognize something that’s a big deal here is how it makes you feel. How does your email make you feel? And that’s a really big deal because that difference between feeling overwhelmed, stressed out. There’s just so much going on. That feeling is a feeling of being out of control for so many people where the processing, even though you’ve still got 4,000 emails sitting there, which is a ton, the feeling of I’m in control of this, that’s what changes everything.
I think for some people, it’s important to have this distinction of true inbox zero. There’s nothing in there. Versus I have processed it. And so that feeling of inbox zero has been achieved. I just want to make that distinction for people as well.
[0:04:36] DC: Something I didn’t mention that I probably should add is that those are only since January or February, because I do try to – picking through to delete them is not something I have time for. I’m a bulk delete person. I give it a certain amount of months and then I decide if it’s from 6 months ago, I’ve done something with it already. I will sort by date instead of by person to erase things. But then if I see, as I scroll through it, I don’t just mass delete without looking. But as I scroll through it, then I can make individual decisions of, “Up. This is something that’s still a conversation.”
But let me tell you what I usually find in there, things that I should have responded to, things that were ongoing and potentially not moving anymore because the correspondent stopped, whether I was owed an answer or I’m going to tell the truth, it’s because I was owed an answer. I’m an answer person. But I didn’t follow up on what was going on because I’ve forgotten about it.
Certainly, people asking to set up meetings and proposals that I responded and they never responded back to me. And I don’t use a CRM, a customer relationship management system or anything like that. It was really scary when I did this exercise for this podcast to find out what was actually sitting in there dormant.
[0:06:04] SO: And Deborah, you’re touching on so many things. A lot of people are using their email for a variety of tools. And so one of the podcasts we had recently was with Jeff, my business partner. And one of the things that he’s taught me, because he has that autistic brain, he can really recognize where things go and see patterns. And so he says to me all the time, he’s like, “Sarah, you’re trying to use that tool for something it’s not meant to do.” Which is a fabulous thing that he has taught me over all these years. And I’m still forcing stuff into the wrong box essentially.
And so what you’re bringing up is really, really critical for people. Are you using your inbox as a to-do list? Are you using it as a CRM? Are you using it as your sales engine because someone said, “Hey, I like you. I might want to work with you one day.” And now that thing is sitting in there as like a hot lead in your inbox. I think it’s important for people to recognize.
To back up momentarily, people ask me all the time, what is the best productivity tool that exists? And I will say this until the cows come home, it is the one that you’re going to use. If you are effectively using your email to achieve some of these larger goals, and that’s the thing that works for you, by all means keep it rolling. Don’t stop what’s working for you. But if you are in this trap of I’m feeling stuck, it feels like my email is drowning me, then I think we’ve got an opportunity to think about, “Well, what are you trying to accomplish with your email?” And if you’re trying to have your email replace a CRM, and Salesforce, and your Asana, and your to-do list and all the tasks it’s supposed to be doing, you might be trying to accomplish too much with email. The function of email as a tool is to communicate with other people. And you might be using it for like 10 other things. I hope that makes sense.
[0:07:51] DC: Oh, it makes total sense. And you have totally just made me realize that I can easily – I have a lot of email boxes too. Because not only do I have the Deborah@, but I have the infos@ for Girls Who Print, for Print Media Centr. I have a email that is just for my newsletter. And I have an email for Print FM. But what I can do is create a folder in all of those emails and make it like this is something you have to pay attention to. And then this way, I could just click in one place and see it instead of having to scroll back and remember.
You just inspired me to do that. And I’m very excited because I won’t miss one of these again. Because even today I found something that I didn’t respond to, and I had to apologize before I answered. And I always do because it is something that I missed. But it’s really interesting too because the other thing I just want to say before we move on is that I’m somebody who lives and dies by subject lines in emails because of how –
[0:08:57] SO: Oh, preach. Preach, Deborah. Preach. Go.
[0:09:01] DC: Because of how I use my email. Please stop WhatsApping me text that you want on the website. That is not my tool, like you said. And there’s too much scrolling over there. When I send an initial email then somebody changes the subject and, all of a sudden, there’s 20 other people on the email now. And I’m thinking of the thing, and I’m like, “Okay, I don’t have one email in my inbox that’s related to this.” I actually have a practice of I will change the subject line and send it back. But that is also because I am trying to make other people follow my process, so it’s easier for me. I guess it’s not very fair to do that, though.
[0:09:45] SO: Well, I think what’s fair to everyone is if we all developed a better practice of making subject lines meaningful and relevant. Because, again, people use their emails in a variety of ways, as we’re sharing here. And so making it easy for people to find this is what this is related to internally. Potentially, you name the client in that subject line. Make it easy to search job numbers could be really helpful in your line of work. Thinking about that could be really helpful.
I think it’s also important to recognize like what feelings you have around your emails. And so what can we do about that? We might be feeling like, “Well, I might need this one day because I’m trying to use this as a CRM, or I don’t know where to put this thing, or because this subject line is so vaguely named, I’m never going to find this again. So I guess I’ll just leave it right in my inbox.”
And so thinking about naming conventions, labels if you’re in Gmail, folders if you’re in Microsoft. How can you structure your email so that essentially it can become a filing system, but you’re cleaning out that inbox? Because again, it ends up being a reference tool for a lot of people, which I get. Mine is, too. But I think naming things properly, getting them into the right folders, getting them into the right categories.
If you’re a Gmail user, setting up those rules, using filters to get them where they need to go. That can just save you a lot of time from the triage process. But again, think about how it’s making you feel. And not to get all warm and mushy on this, but there’s a lot of feelings associated with email, and it just might feel too risky to actually get rid of some of the emails. When you talk about deleting emails, people have a real feeling around that.
[0:11:27] DC: I don’t necessarily have a problem deleting them because I have my own. There’s a length of time where I believe my perception is that it’s not relevant anymore. Right?
[0:11:38] SO: Yeah. It’s like the statute of limitation.
[0:11:40] DC: Yes. Exactly. But even in that, I am still saving emails in my inbox from even a year or two ago because it’s a person and I don’t have anywhere else to save them as a person, which is alerting me to the fact – every time I talk to you, I’m like, “Great, Sarah. Thank you so much.”
[0:11:59] SO: Thanks so much for extra work.
[0:12:00] DC: Thank you so much.
[0:12:00] SO: But it’s an investment now that saves you time later. And that’s pretty much along the line. If you’re a new listener to the show, that’s a through line. There you go. Spoiler alert. That’s it. Investing in ourselves now with templates, and processes, and systems, it just is what saves us time later.
[BREAK]
[0:12:18] SO: I’m Sarah Ohanesian, and before I built SO Productive, I was a chief marketing officer. So, I get it. Tight budgets, growing workloads, and that constant pull between strategy and execution. That’s why I now work with companies of every size, from two-person startups to teams of thousands. I help them to streamline operations, improve team alignment, and reclaim time for work that truly matters to your bottom line. Whether you need a short-term fix or a long-term partner in productivity, my team and I will help you get clarity and build systems that actually stick. Find out more at so-productive.com.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:13:03] DC: Okay, I’m going to throw a little wrench into this conversation because I was at an event last week or this week, and I was in an AI session. And the gentleman was saying how he has it set up so that his Claude – he works with Claude Cowork. And through that, Claude can look in his email, read it, decide what’s priority. He can ask it to tell him if he’s missed anything, if there’s any upcoming dates that he needs to be aware about and things like that. And I have tried to do that, but I couldn’t. And I finally understood the missing piece, which was that I use Mac mail because I have a Mac, which is why it doesn’t work. So, I need to reconfigure my email to go through the Microsoft server instead of I use a company called Rackspace that helps me with that.
And once I make that switch, it can actually be automated in some ways, including – for example, I have a Girls Who Print event coming up and I had to send all the speakers the same exact information except it was their art for their picture. Otherwise, it was tell me when we can talk again, and here’s the information about the event. Then I find out that if I set it up this new way, the AI can set all of those emails as drafts for me to review, but I didn’t have to cut and paste everything 22 times. So, where do you fall on all of that? And do you have an automated process for your email?
[0:14:41] SO: Okay, where I fall on it is that I think this is putting a real light on real human relationships are more important than ever. My feeling on all the AI talk is I think it’s amazing. I think there’s so many benefits to us saving time. If that saves you time to instead of drafting things and cutting and pasting, that’s not the best use of our brain power anyways. And I would rather see us using that time to interact as human beings and form real relationships with real people.
So what I would vote for always is if we have a real relationship, add in a line or two that shows me that you’re still a real person sending this thing. Now if it’s strict logistics, this is the time you need to be somewhere, and that’s perfectly fine. Where I’m getting annoyed with AI, real annoyed, and here, let me go on a soap box for a minute, is it’s a sales process really. I’m getting, and I’m sure you are too, 10 to 20 emails a day just, “Hey, I love what you’re doing over at SO Productive. Here’s my new sales thing. And we can get you a million dollars by next week.” Just stop emailing me those things.
I think when it’s being used for mass, it’s being used for kind of sleazy sales processes, I hate it and I wish it would go away. But if it saves us time and you’re interacting with someone who you do have a real relationship with and then that frees you up time to actually invest in the real relationship because you’re not worried about email logistics, I’m all for it.
[0:16:16] DC: There can be templates for thank you so much for contacting us for a proposal. Here’s our media kit. Have a great day. I don’t have a media kit, but I’m asked for one all the time. And in the case with my letters, I wrote the letter first, but then I had AI just help me insert the person’s session title and their session description so they could approve it. And then it was just a manual cut and paste after that.
So, I agree with what you’re saying. I don’t believe that our conversation though is about using it as a sales or marketing tool. It’s just about dealing with your own communication in your own inbox, right? I mean, that’s our conversation about it.
[0:17:03] SO: Totally. And let’s take the spammy salespeople. They’re flooding a lot of our inboxes right now. So, what I would say is let Claude get rid of them. Claude can triage your email –
[0:17:15] DC: 100%.
[0:17:15] SO: and get rid of those things that they can tell, “AI I wrote this thing. This is fake. Sarah’s never interacted with this person before.” Get rid of that. I don’t even need to see it or know it happened. Amazing. I think using it as a triage system can be really helpful. And then I also think having it tee up drafts for you can be really, really simple.
I think we run into trouble when none of us are ever checking our email anymore. The robots are talking to the robots. And who knows what they’re going to cook up then? I think we got to put the human side back into this. But when AI can help us do some of these more menial tasks, then we do have time to write real genuine emails to people that we care about and want to do good work with.
[0:17:56] DC: I love it. So, like I said, one of the criteria I use is time for how I sort through my emails. But what are some of the common reasons people keep them? And how do you know if it’s actually worth keeping? I guess that’s a pretty big question that might get a depends answer.
[0:18:17] SO: Okay, so part of this is is that feeling. I might need this later. I don’t know where to put it. I opened it, but I don’t want to deal with it right now, so I’m going to close it, mark it unread, and hope that I want to deal with it tomorrow, which you’re not going to want to tomorrow either. Feels safe potentially to keep it here. This feels like a safety zone. And I might need this someday. That fear of maybe I will utilize this. That rainy day when I’ve got nothing to do, maybe I’ll come back into my email and read this newsletter finally or follow up with this person finally. It’s like you’re not going to do that, but you think you might. gain, there’s a lot of feelings associated with this. The problem with it is when it becomes so robust and then you’re logging in and that number has just been ticking up and up, it’s very challenging.
Deborah, I know you love to give really solid tips on this podcast. So do I. My first tip, really tangible tip would be read it once. Decide what you’re going to do with it in that moment. Because your gut feeling on that email, it’s probably right. Either delete it if you feel like you’re never going to really get back to it. Reply to it. Just take care of it. Turn it into a task in your to-do list or your Asana system. File it where it needs to go. Or if it’s a larger item, put some time in your calendar to actually handle it. This email, this one’s a bit more of a doozy. That’s going to take me like an hour to deal with. I’m going to handle that. I’m going to do that tomorrow at four o’clock. So, that’s my recommendation. Open it once, triage it, and put it where it needs to go. But I keep opening it, and closing it, and marking it unread, and going back to it. We’re actually wasting a lot of time when your gut reaction to that email is probably the one you should have gone with in the first place.
[0:20:03] DC: That’s actually Kim Kardashian’s system. If she opens it and reads it, she either responds to it or she deletes it and it’s gone. And I guess she’s in a position where if somebody really wants to get in touch with her, they’ll email her again, which is sort of how I treat my mail that comes through the mailbox. I sort it that way. No, no, later. Right now, you know. It’s very difficult letting go of it sometimes.
But to your point, it feels so good when your email box only says 2,000 emails instead – I’ve had to rebuild my inbox three times because there’s too much stuff in there. And it’s just because I’m hoarding it for no reason. I have no excuse. Zero.
[0:20:47] SO: Well, that’s a really important thing. And I think if you find yourself hoarding, one thing to do is utilize those labels, utilize those folders so it feels like it’s in a safe place. You can go back to it if you want to. You’re not probably going to, but you can. And so if you’re using it as a reference point, which I do think that’s how a lot of people use it, put it where it needs to go.
[BREAK]
[0:21:08] DC: Leadership isn’t a title, it’s a journey. And Girls Who Print membership supports you at every step, with resources to grow your skills, boost your confidence, and expand your professional network. Through our member-exclusive programs, you’ll tap into industry expertise, connect with mentors and peers, and access opportunities that open doors you didn’t even know existed. Whether you want to lead a team, launch a business, or explore new possibilities in print, we are here to help you do it with community, not competition. Join Girls Who Print today and take the lead in your career. To learn more about our comprehensive membership program, visit girlswhoprint.org. Empower long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:21:59] DC: If someone only had 20 minutes today after listening to this podcast, what is one practical step they can take to make this whole process feel less overwhelming?
[0:22:10] SO: I think the read it once is first and foremost. Second, I would say let go of like I might need this later. Because if it’s important enough, if this is a brand new customer who’s going to change your world, you’re going to remember to get back to that. If it’s not that important, let it go.
And so, I think that’s a big distinction of we’re holding on to things that we feel like we might need one day. So, let it go. If it’s important enough, you’re going to follow up with it. You’re going to take care of it. It’s a big deal there. And then what I would do is exactly what you said earlier, is pick a date and delete it. What is a date that feels quarterly? Or the end of the year can be a really good time. But it’s been 2 years maybe this email’s been in. I’m just going to let it go. That’s fine. So, pick a date and get rid of it. So, that’s what I’d recommend.
And I think in the 20 minutes, a lot of times a meeting ends early or a meeting gets cancelled and we have these awkward times sometimes that show up in our day. That could be a great period of time to say, “Oh, that meeting ended 10 minutes early. Actually, I’m going to go in and do some triage of my email.” In 20 minutes, you can actually triage a lot of things that you don’t need. Get rid of that junk even. And now the number goes from 4,000 down a little bit. And we can feel better pretty quickly with email.
[0:23:31] DC: Okay. Want to be a little bit of a devil’s advocate here for everyone who’s listening and saying, “Sarah, every email in my inbox is important. It’s from a customer. It’s something I need to do. It’s something I have to respond to.” How do you triage that to get to inbox zero?
[0:23:49] SO: This is a fantastic question and really at scale. I see this in corporate settings a lot of times. People tend to underestimate their operational work. And so what I mean by that is we get kind of enticed almost by the big sexy projects and the things that we’re working on when teams really underestimate how much time they’re needing for email, how much time they’re needing for that recurring meeting.
So, I’ve had a couple clients where we’ve really analyzed this time and that operational work, like just the cost of doing business, of getting your job done, which includes checking your email, that is something that people grossly underestimate. My recommendation for you is get some proactive time on your calendar. Actually, account for that. You’re like, “I got to check my email for 30 minutes a day.” That’s just the reality of what it takes me to get through this to get to that inbox zero feeling. Put some time on your calendar for email.
And I know people are like, “What? That’s ridiculous.” But it’s part of your work. Yet, we’re not putting any time on our calendar to actually do it. And then it’s the thing that causes us so much anxiety and stress because the numbers ticking up. Do the math, and then put that time on your calendar.
[0:25:10] DC: And if you’ve been a long time listening to this podcast, you should already have some time on your weekly calendar squirreled away for things that you need to do. I have Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a few hours that are completely blocked off. Nobody can get on my calendar. And I can do what I need to do in that time. Or I immediately know that it’s open for a meeting if I have to reschedule something quickly and I don’t want to do a lot of back and forth. So, that is actually great advice.
I also know someone who has a process where they only check their email twice a day. Once in the morning and once midafternoon. And that’s it. They respond to what they respond to that which is still within I guess normal parameters of when people answer email. Although, I’ve been seeing a lot of funny messages on people’s emails lately like, “Just because I’m responding to you at 2:00 in the morning, don’t worry about it. I work crazy hours.” I’m not expecting you to answer me. A lot of emailing going on is in the second shifts and things. So, how would you wrap this all up?
[0:26:19] SO: I would say do what works for you always if it aligns with your job. I would say with a caveat of if you’re in customer service and part of your job is we get back to people within one to two hours, well, please do that. Don’t get laid off because of Deborah and Sarah on the podcast here.
[0:26:35] DC: Why was I first on that list of people to blame?
[0:26:39] SO: Within what is acceptable and part of the culture of your team and your company’s expectations? Now, if you’re a leader, I would define that for your team. I think that’s really critical. Because you might have someone that says, “Oh, I heard on the podcast I can check my email once or twice a day.” If that’s an expectation, just make sure you’re in alignment with your team on what that is.
But I think it’s great. Checking email all day every day puts us in reaction mode, and we’re responding to whatever pops up next. And for most of us, we’ve got critical work to get done. You got to have some time to do that deep work, and email’s going to get in the way of that. So, I love it. That’s what I typically do. I’m responding to my emails in bulk.
And I also respond to my emails. I’ll sort them by conversation. I’ll sort them by person. And I will respond to that entire topic all at once. Because what I have found is actually when I let it go for a little bit, people have kind of worked it out without me and then I just say, “Great, thanks for that final decision.” Where if I had been involved all day long, I would have been distracted by the back and forth. So, it depends on your job. But yes, if possible, I’m all for that once or twice a day to check it.
[0:27:51] DC: Everybody, make sure you email Sarah all your questions, concerns. I was only kidding, Sarah.
[0:27:59] SO: I’m happy to. But yes, I might only get back to you once or twice a day.
[0:28:03] DC: Hey, you get priorities. But everything you do need to connect with Sarah is in the show notes. Once again, thank you so much for your time. Until next time, everybody. Print long and prosper.
Thanks for listening to Time Management Tips in 20. To connect with Sarah at SO Productive and find links for any resources we mentioned in this episode, just check out the show notes. And remember, all the great programming from Podcast from the Printerverse is streaming 24/7 on printfmradio.com, the world’s first internet radio station dedicated to print and graphic communications. Until next time, time manage long and prosper.
[END]
