[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:04] DC: It takes the right skills and the right innovation to design and manage meaningful print marketing solutions. Welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse, where we explore all facets of print and marketing that create stellar communications and sales opportunities for business success. I’m your host, Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse. Thanks for tuning in. Listen long and prosper.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:32] DC: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador. We have a guest today. Shane Lukas is the Founder and creative strategist of A Great Idea, a creative and development studio working with purpose-driven organizations on brand, design, and communications. Shane founded A Great Idea in 2015, and the agency celebrated its 10th anniversary last year. For more than 25 years, he has worked across brand strategy, graphic design, and creative communications, helping organizations bring ideas to life across print and digital platforms. He’s also an author, a workshop facilitator, podcast host, and two-time TEDx speaker.
Today, we’re going to focus on Shane’s perspective as a designer, an agency owner, and a print customer, including his advocacy for working with local print providers and what printers can do to build stronger relationships with designers and agencies. Welcome to the Printerverse, Shane Lukas.
[0:01:45] SL: Thank you so much, Deborah. It’s such a pleasure to be here in the printerverse. I’ve been navigating the stars. Already inside. I’m already here.
[0:01:53] DC: Excellent. And you found your way to me. I love it.
[0:01:55] SL: I founded my way to you.
[0:01:57] DC: Tell everybody more about a great idea and the work that you do.
[0:02:02] SL: Great. I thank you again for inviting me to be here today. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. I appreciate it very much. A great idea is in some ways, something I’m so proud of, because it’s not just thinking of itself as an agency, as a brand communications, trusted partner for healthcare, education, for-profit clients, as well as nonprofit and community partners across the country. But we like to think of ourselves as part of that movement work, part of transformation ourselves. It’s really built into our model to not just do effective communications, to not just talk about advocacy building through print and digital media, but to really talk about the ways that we help convey that message to think about organizers having direct contact and meaningful and authentic engagement with advocates.
It’s not just the materials, but it’s also the messaging. It’s also the technologies. It’s also thinking about print media in a very different way, that we can make sure that it’s available to people where they need it, when they need it, and when it’s really top of mind for them to be thinking about how different social movements, or how different initiatives really play into their lives. This is something I’m really proud of. We’ve been doing this, as you said, for 10 years, which I’m really excited about. As somebody who came to design very much, not from studying it, but really from doing it, my study to journalism and then ended up doing design, the idea of working with print, the idea of working with printed materials.
When we think about print, we often talk about solely paper product, which is great and important. But I love working with squeegee toys and working with environmental graphics and working with all of these things that create an experience for people. Being able to do that for our partners at live events and galas and other stuff like that, as well as for ourselves, when we’re doing initiatives, I don’t know if you knew this. I don’t know if I told you this. For our 10th anniversary, for example, we worked with a local musician and have a theme song. Then not only do I have a –
[0:03:51] DC: That’s so cool.
[0:03:53] SL: Yeah. We not only have a theme song, but then we actually press the seven-inch record. Then we also did the cover and everything for the seven-inch record. It has little remixes on it. It’s very fun. If anybody wants one, just let me know and reach out. The song is a banger. It’s really fun. I’m a music nerd. Our team was like, “What can we do that’s really interesting?” We’re like, “You know what? We’re going to do a song, because that’s what’s so fun.” It’s quite a little bop, and it was fun to work on the print product. Because with our partners, we get to do a lot of a really amazing things. I wanted to be challenged with, all right, let’s try something very different. I’d never designed a seven-inch record before.
I’d done a lot of book publishing work. I’ve done a lot of print pieces and environmental, all that stuff, billboards, all those things. But a record, I was like, “Oh, this is really fun.” It’s great. It was a really great experience. We put a little QR code in the middle of the record, so that you can scan the QR code over there. It’s all very fun. Challenging ourselves is also part of the work, because we’re trying to bring ideas to our partners. To do that, we have to be able to explore them, right? We have to be able to say, “Hey, this work, this was interesting. Here’s another way to think about a trifold. Oh, good, a trifold.” But what are other ways we can think about delivering that? Again, that’s very much what we do as an organization, as a business.
Then we also bring some of that back to our communities. We have 5% of everything we make goes back into civic engagement work. We fund initiatives, we sponsor events. We have our own podcast, which we sponsor and support. Those types of things are things that we continue to do as an organization and a small businesses.
[0:05:25] DC: What’s the name of your podcast?
[0:05:26] SL: The podcast is called Power Beyond Pride. Because I identify as a queer person, a queer community member. It’s really about queer changemaking. We have seven co-hosts from across the country and our guests have included celebrities. We’ve had Dominique Jackson, for example, from Pose. We’ve had the former CDCs, HIV and I want to say, a czar. Demetre Daskalakis has been on there. Dr. Demetre, we appreciate you. We’ve had people who are celebrities, as well as people who are on the ground just doing incredible work every day. We have this wide range of guests every week. So, that’s been really great to be able to talk about movement work in a constructive way, with our large co-host team who bring their own lived experiences.
[0:06:08] DC: Well, just I identify as a queer person as well, if you ever need a guest on your podcast.
[0:06:13] SL: I guess, well, we would love to have you on that.
[0:06:17] DC: Excellent. Okay. I guess, I shouldn’t be pandering to my own guests yet.
[0:06:21] SL: I mean, pander, pander, pander, pander, pander, pander.
[0:06:23] DC: I just want to support you.
[0:06:24] SL: You’re amazing, and I love –
[0:06:26] DC: No, you’re amazing. Stop.
[0:06:28] SL: Building community is building community is so critical, and I think you exemplify that with what you’re doing here in terms of the Printerverse and in the work that you do. It’s really what I talk a lot about when I talk about advocacy building, because it’s not just about the work, the day-to-day work, the practical work. It’s about the community you build, so that new ideas and innovation and opportunities are really at the helm. I really appreciate that. That is one of the reasons why I gravitated towards you and wanted to continue our interactions the first time that we spoke, because giving back to the community is so important where you live. I just love that not only do you help all the non-profits, you also help the local people and you support local printing.
In that conversation we had, you also told me something I thought was really interesting. You said that a great idea does a lot of print and it was more than you thought it would be. I want to know why did that surprise you, and what are the types of print projects that you’re producing.
[0:07:33] SL: That’s a great question. As somebody again, as I mentioned before, who did not study design and then moved into this field, I moved in during the dot-com boom. I am an alum of the monster.com. I’m an alum of a variety of drugster.com, a variety of different initiatives that were very digitally –
[0:07:50] DC: I worked on mail.com when at first launch. Remember that one?
[0:07:53] SL: Oh, mail.com.
[0:07:54] DC: And Petco. Remember the Petco pet? I did that for a little sock puppet, too.
[0:07:59] SL: I love it. Yeah. We were inundated with this message that print would go away, that we would be supplanting print in only digital formats. Because I came of skill set, I don’t know, we came of age, came of skill set. In that era, I initially started out with all digital. Even though at the same time, I was actually developing a DIY zine that was printed and thrown into little bookstores. I’m Gen X through and through and I love it. I could simultaneously experience where the value of a printed product was, because it was in the hands of people. It was easy for people to access. They could carry with them and had a permanency that the digital experience doesn’t have. I loved that. I was cutting my teeth in code and digital design and the what archaic feels of early Photoshop and a variety of those experiences, right? I’m grateful that I got to experience both of those things.
Everybody was talking about the death knell of print. I was like, well, I don’t think that’s going to happen. I felt very much in the minority at the time. I felt like, there are some impacts for sure, right? There are going to be some changes in the ways that digital would impact communications. But when people need convenience, when people need also luxury and tactility and want something that’s going to stand out for them and hold sway and hold that moment past whatever click I’m about to do, it’s going to be in print. It’s going to be that. It’s going to be that moment. It’s also going to be that impression in the environments that I live in.
Digital billboards will have some impact, but I can’t walk into, I don’t know, a softie kind of experience that’s a covered space and have something that feels it’s insulated in the brand, like have this moment, right? I don’t get that in digital. I can’t have that. Maybe VR someday, but even then, weird. But it’s fine. Print is always going to have, I think, that ability to interact with people. I think in the current moment, there is this almost pushback from digital. Again, I don’t want to overstate that. We’re definitely all in and everybody’s moving into digital. You see that with young people adopting things like final records. We did that records and music industry certainly seeing that be a boom. There’s also a desire to have these tactile physical pieces, when people are out of places and they want something to remember. Sometimes they want something more than just taking a picture of their phone, because at some point, I have a billion pictures on my phone and I don’t have anything with me that stands out. I need to have something that has a little bit more tactility.
I think we have to think inventively about how we do that, which is where I think printers come in. Printers to help us come up with those ideas. Have printers help and introduce us to new opportunities in the way that whether it’s web printing, or we’re doing four-color, or other initiatives, we do short runs more than we could ever do in the past. That’s pretty amazing, right? Because we can go to clients and say, you can do a 200 run of a magazine. You don’t need to do a 2,000, or 5,000 run of a magazine. You can do a quality print at 200, and that’s okay. Those are new innovations that we want to be able to work alongside printers to create.
[SPONSOR MESSAGE]
[0:11:08] DC: Get ready to turn up the volume on print. PrintFM is a global internet radio station dedicated exclusively to print and graphic communications, accessible around the clock in every time zone. No more searching across channels and apps. PrintFM brings relevant topical programming from Print Media Centr, Girls Who Print, and an array of industry contributors who bring their own perspectives, guests, and conversations to the mix. PrintFM also broadcasts from industry events, with live shows being scheduled throughout the year. Visit printfm.com to explore our daily programming, event schedules, and opportunities to share your content or sponsor our shows. Expert discussions, real-world insight, and industry voices are just a click away. Listen long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:12:08] DC: You just made me realize that everybody wants what they don’t have, right? When you don’t have a convertible car, you want a convertible. Until you get a convertible, and then you’re like, “Why the hell did I get this convertible?” It’s good a couple of months during the year and the rest of the time the activation goes out, the heat goes out, or whatever, or a bird pecks through the roof, whatever might happen through the –
[0:12:31] SL: That feels like a sole set of stories that –
[0:12:34] DC: I’m just saying. But to your point, digital natives, that’s what they have. That’s all that they have all around them. What is different to them is print. Where the Gen Xers, we don’t care. Well, we had both of it. Give me digital for convenience and paper when I have to make decisions, right? The Boomers, they’re their own thing over there. I mean, my mother uses electronics, but I am literally tech support for everything, but at least they try. The millennials, I think they’re in the middle of that. But to them, it has to have meaning. There has to be meaning for it. If it’s going to be digital, there has to be meaning. It has to be meaningful to me. When it comes to their house, or they picked it up somewhere, it has to have meaning and then they can get over the sustainability issues that they believe are there, which are not everybody. Go to twosidesna.com, or two sides wherever you are and look up the great environmental story that print and paper have to tell.
Back to you, Shane. You recently contributed an article to Graphic Design USA. Shout out to Graphic Design USA, where you encourage designers to start local when building relationships with printers. Why is that strategy and what if local printers don’t have the capabilities you need? What do you do then?
[0:14:03] SL: That’s a great question. Working with local printers is a gift in many ways. In part, again, as I mentioned before, collaboration is so important. Collaboration is something we have as our values as far, as our company goes. Then supporting local businesses is obviously something that we would see value in. We want to see people in our communities, our neighbors be able to have access to resources in this world. Now, we recognize that some facilities that are out there can produce large quantities, or do things on mass that a local printer has more challenges with, if they’re doing certain things, certain specialties, that type of thing. We do try to go to local printers first, because they’re also going to be the easiest ones to call us and say, “Hey, these files, or here’s an opportunity, or hey, we’ve got this envelope color that’s just a little bit better than the one you actually picked out. Do you want to look at that?” They want to work with us at some point, where they feel like they’re also getting something successful.
They need to be a good business, and I recognize that we’re all here at some level doing some commercial work. But I think that work is so much easier done when you’re with people who want to see you succeed and also people who understand what you want to accomplish. When we also work with printers, we tend to prioritize. We don’t only work with BIPOC, or other printers. We do look for women-owned BIPOC. We do look for minority-owned printers. We do look for that. Not all of our printers are. But we do make that part of our work is to make sure that we’re also sourcing in places that we encourage businesses to succeed in places that historically may not have been as well represented.
We do think about that as we go through. That being said, the printers that we work with really do represent the wide range in the spectrum of different printers. Mostly what matters for us is that connectivity. Do they get what we’re looking to do? Do they believe in the quality, too? Are they going to be the ones who stop at the press and be like, “Whoa, this bleed is off,” or aren’t and going that well, or not doing so well here. Our drums aren’t doing the things that they need to do. We’re going to go ahead and make sure we do this, or run it differently, or make sure the cuts are good. Whatever the case may be, we want them to look at it and feel like, hey, this is quality work.
The challenge with national printers is sometimes they’re great and inexpensive, but sometimes they’re running such an on mass that we’re 500 stickers out of their 5 million stickers. They’re going to run that day and they might not care. I’m not saying every printer is like that. There’s some amazing national printers we’ve worked with that have done a great job and then do care, but it is more of a risk. I don’t have anybody I can call the same way. I might get an account rep, but I don’t really get to the printer. Oftentimes, at the local printer, I can get to somebody who’s at least one cubicle away, or 20 feet away from what needs to be done. I do appreciate that.
[0:16:45] DC: Yeah.
[0:16:46] SL: Those things really matter.
[0:16:48] DC: There’s also something to, “Oh, yeah. That’s Shane’s account. He doesn’t like the blue like that. Add a little more yellow to it.” Whatever it might be. Or, “Hey, Shane. We’re not really sure if this paper is running the way it should. Can you stop by?” There’s a lot of value to working with local printers. A thousand percent, I agree with you on that. I will just help with the second part of that question saying that your best resource for resources are your preferred resources, because good people always know good people. The other thing is that a lot of printers have the same technology, which means that they have interacted with other people around the world with their same technology. A lot of times that becomes an advantage, because they can communicate, these are the colors we have dialed in on our presses. We’re going to send you some samples, and then you do what you need to do to get this as close as possible to the result that is expected. Yeah, any comments on that?
[0:17:54] SL: No, I think that is it. Like I said, there’s some national printers. We work with a magazine printer. We do now a few different magazines, but I love working on magazines. Some of my background is editorial work, and so it’s a joy to be able to work in magazines. Again, not something I thought I would do. Not an area that I thought would still be continuing. Yet, here I am, I’m actually working on several magazines this year. There’s definitely a desire for that to be in the world. I think it’s connecting with people in meaningful ways. I do think that tactility matters a lot. It’s funny, you mentioned around generations, right? There is a return, a desire for tactility. There is a desire for those experiences. I think that’s incredibly powerful.
I think it’s something that printers continue – We actually have a couple printers that we work with that do support specifically nonprofit work. In that, one of the things we’ve been very fortunate to continue to see successful as messaging is riding that tactility, driving that that relationship to people having something in hand. I think for Millennials and Gen Z, there is a desire for that. When you think about all of your memories being this temporal space, like I said, how many photos do I have in my phone that I will never go back to? I’ll never go look at.
[0:19:02] DC: Yeah, the last what, 15, 20 years is in my phone.
[0:19:06] SL: Yeah. But I print out. I do a run about two to three times a year. I’ll throw a bunch of photos out to get it printed and then I’ll just replace them on my fridge, or switch stuff out now and again. Or I hand them to friends. I’m like, “Hey, this is the thing,” and I’ll put it in a card and send it to people. That, again, that way to remind people in a very physical way means something now. In fact, to your point, it actually means more, because it is not as ubiquitous. It is not as – it feels not as common.
[0:19:36] DC: Right. I want to make two comments about what you just said. First, I have recently started ordering photos and sending framed photos to people as gifts, like from my phone, there’s apps that you just send your photos in. Yeah, it really makes a difference to people, because usually, you’re just sending that picture in a text and send, “Thanks for a great birthday dinner,” or whatever it was, and you go about your life. I like that.
I want to get back to this tactile thing, because you pushed a button here. Because the argument that is made and I’m going to do the voice I make when I hear this. People like to touch paper. People like to touch paper. Okay, fantastic. People like to touch paper. But if there is not a meaningful message on that paper, okay, you made me stop, you made me look at it and I’m still saying, “This is junk and it’s going in the garbage pile.” There’s got to be a balance of is this tactile worthy? I mean, tactile costs extra money. Is this a spray and pray thing? Is this something that you actually want people to, if they touch the texture, the scent, the whatever it might be, does its job? The next job it has to do is become a communications device, right? Or some device.
[0:21:04] SL: Or, it should be.
[0:21:05] DC: Yes, it should be –
[0:21:07] SL: 100%.
[0:21:08] DC: – addressed.
[0:21:08] SL: It should be telling a story.
[0:21:09] DC: Yes.
[0:21:10] SL: It should be telling a story, right? These should all be about stories. I think it’s really meaningful that you share that insight, because obviously, we focus a lot on brand strategy. We deliver all the print digital pieces. But one of the areas we’re trusted and why we do what we do is because we focus on community led and very values rooted work. We’re really focused on making sure that our advocates are connected to the work, whether they’re direct consumers, whether they’re just advocates and they’re fans, because they might live with somebody who’s going to be your consumer. You want people to think about your brand in a meaningful way that is connected to their lives, right? You want it to be – and especially in this day and age, you also want it to be authentic. It has a little authenticity and consistent.
We’re trusted to bring that forward. Why this comes up is because AI is going to change a lot of things, and we’re going to see a lot, a lot, so much, so much content that’s going to be thrown at people that is going to have all of the fingerprints and thumbnails, then thumbnails, thumbprints and fingerprints and thumbnails. That’s just going to be very derivative over time. I think the initial wave of them, people will be like, “Oh, ah, there’s going to be a little bit of that in the process.”
As it would be expected with any trend, it will eventually plateau, right? Then, what have you done? You may have done damage to the brand, simply because you’re relying on a lot of tropes and not really thinking through forward what that strategy is going to yield. This is the thing about marketing. When everybody else is doing it, you can’t. If you want to stand out, you have to be able to think about something else, which is where I think organic and finding organic things and is probably the next moment is going to be a lot about that tactility. It’s going to be a lot about an organic quality, a lot about the feeling that things are hand-touched, or hand-crafted, or in some ways, off. I know that sounds weird to say, but it’s almost –
[0:23:03] DC: No, it doesn’t.
[0:23:04] SL: – too perfect.
[0:23:06] DC: No, it’s not – Okay. Yes, I have received things that have purposely have printed coffee stains on them, or purposely have printed tears on. It’s not really there, but you’re like, “What the hell is going on here?” Yes, that is absolutely disruptive in that sense. Yeah.
[SPONSOR MESSAGE]
[0:23:28] DC: Leadership isn’t a title, it’s a journey. And Girls Who Print membership supports you at every step, with resources to grow your skills, boost your confidence, and expand your professional network. Through our member-exclusive programs, you’ll tap into industry expertise, connect with mentors and peers, and access opportunities that open doors you didn’t even know existed. Whether you want to lead a team, launch a business, or explore new possibilities in print, we are here to help you do it with community, not competition. Join Girls Who Print today and take the lead in your career. To learn more about our comprehensive membership program, visit girlswhoprint.org. Empower long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:24:19] DC: I don’t disagree with anything you said, but I don’t think it’s a return to tactility. I think it is a return to, this is about me and not about you. The best piece can come in the mail as tactile as it wants, but if it’s all about the company, “This is what we do and this is how great we are,” and I can’t see myself in that, then I don’t think it matters what the delivery device is.
[0:24:50] SL: I think that’s absolutely right. One of the things is making sure, and this is why the narrative matters, right? This is why if it’s community led and I’m of that community are connected to that narrative in some way and you’re able to capture that, I think that is great. I think the risk is actually overdoing it on the other side. One of the challenges in AI world, right, is the customization with and without my consent of the things that I like, or ways that I engage. I think when we talk about direct mail, when we talk about printed pieces that know me too well, that can be just as, and we don’t know, because again, we’re just starting the world in which this happens, but all I know and maybe you’ve experienced this is that moment where you have a private conversation about, I don’t know, going to Dollywood. We’ll take a moment, honor a great loss of Dolly.
[0:25:37] DC: Oh, Dolly. Yes.
[0:25:39] SL: We really appreciate all of her work and she printed so many books. She did so many incredible things in her life. I talk about it, and then suddenly, I’m getting advertisements, right? Even if it’s not a space where I feel like I have designated consent, or I don’t feel like I’m not talking to any digital device, I just – someone knows and it happens, right? There’s a risk in that, because I think the opportunities for print materials to customize and reflect individuals is there, right? To be able to shoot out a mail, or I walk into a store and then you shoot me a physical piece that follows that to my home and lets me know, “Hey, did you have a good time going to look at this bookstore, or whatever, right?” Creepy. I’m a Gen Xer, I find it creepy. I don’t know how Millennials and Zs. I’m interested –
[0:26:26] DC: It’s creepy if you did not provide any information to them. It is not creepy if you gave them your email address, or your cellphone number. I mean, the damn place I – My butcher asked me all the time. I’m like, “Dude, you don’t need my email address, but thank you.”
[0:26:42] SL: But you see, that people are pushing back from that, too. You also see a resistance to that now when people are like, hey, when you shop at a grocery store and they’re like, do you want to put your information? No. No, I don’t. I don’t want to give you my information.
[0:26:54] DC: I was at a hotel and they wanted my cellphone number. I was like, “Listen.” I was like, “I get it.” I was like, “I work with a lot of marketing people. I’m a marketing person.” I was like, “Do you really need my cellphone number?” They’re like, “No.” I’m like, “Thank you so much. You can’t have it.”
[0:27:11] SL: It just means I have to put a stop on my phone and then who knows what list it ends up on.
[0:27:14] DC: Exactly. But actually, all they wanted to do was be helpful to what I could text them if I needed anything. I was like, that’s very nice.
[0:27:20] SL: I think we’re in the infancy of what that means. That does mean that there’ll be damage done by bad actors. I think I encourage people to not be those.
[0:27:28] DC: There’s already the –
[0:27:30] SL: Sure. But I encourage people not to do it. I encourage people to figure out, again, in-line with their value systems, you mentioned my two TED talks, and my second TED talk is really about helping people understand their own value systems to navigate conflict. It’s something we do a lot with organizations, but it also includes business decision making on how you organize which values mean the most your business and how you employ those in meaningful ways, right? How you do that individually is the TED Talk. How I do it as a strategist and a consultant I do with businesses and organizations.
Working with that conversation is to figure out how do we be the best actors, so that we’re on the right side of this. It doesn’t mean people don’t want personalization. They do. They don’t want things that don’t mean anything to them. Don’t send me, I don’t know, pieces about fly fishing. Fly fishing’s amazing. If you’re a fly fisher, kudos. I am not a fly fisher. Now watch, I did this podcast and now I’m going to get a bunch of emails about, or I’m going to get a bunch of mailers now about fly fishing.
[0:28:23] DC: Let’s see.
[0:28:24] SL: Thank you, AI. That is where personalization runs the risk. It’s an opportunity in print, because it is a way to connect to people. It is a way to get information and share information that people do want. I think we do have to think about consent and I think we do have to think about how we welcome people in and give them opportunities to control the ways in which they have that conversation.
[0:28:48] DC: Yeah. I could not agree with you more. Start with the basic information. Your vet, I have a cat, I have a dog, put one of them on. Connect with me. Put a cat, or a dog. You want to move to the next level, put my cat, or my dog on the postcard. It’s not that difficult.
[0:29:07] SL: My question is, is that too – And I don’t know the answer to this. Does that does that feel like would you have given consent at the vet’s office?
[0:29:14] DC: My vets require I give an image of my pets.
[0:29:18] SL: Okay.
[0:29:19] DC: I guess, it’s their voter registry ID, or something. They have the photos of my pets. Would I care if I saw the photo of my cat on the – No, I would take photos. Are you kidding me? I would be sharing it everywhere that my cat was on a postcard. I would love it. Okay, let’s get back to our conversation.
[0:29:41] SL: I do love that. I do love that you’re sharing that though, because I think it is – just before we move on, I think it’s a great idea, which I’m a little biased about the name, but a great idea. I also think it’s a good place for us to think about, what does consent look like in this new world –
[0:29:55] DC: 100%.
[0:29:55] SL: – where we are sharing these different things? How do we get to a place where people feel both seen and also where we draw some lines about what their privacy looks like?
[0:30:04] DC: Right. Now it would be different if I had kids and the doctor had photos of my kids and a postcard with my kids came on, I would be calling people on that one. But a cat, my pets, I would be on social media sharing it around the world.
[0:30:20] SL: I think it’s an interesting idea. I think that having being able to do a birthday card for your pet. Will they go to one for vets and being able to put that out through the printer and have that automated?
[0:30:29] DC: Chewy, Chewey sends birthday cards, apparently.
[0:30:32] SL: But not with a picture of your pet.
[0:30:33] DC: They could. I mean –
[0:30:34] SL: They could.
[0:30:35] DC: – it’s not that difficult. Just saying.
[0:30:37] SL: We’ll give an idea. We want the trademark on that, by the way. We’re just going to put that right now.
[0:30:40] DC: Please, a couple years back, like 10 years back I used to host this thing called Print Chat on Twitter, when Twitter was Twitter. We did a whole thing about personalizing pet food. Why can’t I send my picture to Purina and I can go on, I could pay a little more money and go to some place where I get my pet on the cat food.
[0:31:03] SL: Oh, for Christmas and we’re going to move on a second. For Christmas, our oldest has passed away. We now have a puppy. We have a five-month-old. But we had a 15-year-old puppy, and a dog, but I still all call them all puppies. It doesn’t matter. I got pajamas printed with both of the puppies on.
[0:31:18] DC: Yeah. I always tell people, there is no surface that a person won’t put their pet on. There is no surface.
[0:31:28] SL: It’s true. It’s true. I feel like a pup dad. Aren’t there enough.
[0:31:31] DC: Yes. Kids, too. But I don’t know if you’ve seen these. It’s the creepiest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. People are putting their babies on comforters, bed sprints. You open the door and there’s a giant freaking baby’s head there. I do not want to open your door and see that.
[0:31:49] SL: I mean, I even found a – who was the photographer who used to put the babies in the cabbages and put the babies in the pumpkins?
[0:31:56] DC: Okay. I don’t know.
[0:31:57] SL: You don’t remember this? Anne Geddes. Ann Geddes. Anne Geddes from the 1990s and 2000s. Look up Anne Geddes, you’ll know what I’m talking about. I find them both adorable and creepy. I really, somewhere in the middle of –
[0:32:12] DC: But just to mention, not knowing and opening the door and there’s a giant head thing looking at you. It’s like, what is that? I really don’t want to – I don’t want a baby bedspread sprung on me.
[0:32:25] SL: Fair enough. Fair enough.
[0:32:26] DC: Okay. Just FYI, if I come to visit, do not do that.
[0:32:30] SL: Well, it’s good that we do not have one, so we’re good.
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[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:33:08] DC: You are an advocate of collaboration, which is something I also love about you. When you’re developing a project, at what point do you bring your printer in to the conversation, or maybe more than one? What is it that you expect from them? This is the part of the conversation where we’re going to give back to all the printers out there and help them understand what you expect from them.
[0:33:36] SL: Yeah, I love this question, because it is something that we do with printers. Because when we work with our printers, we really do think of it as collaboration. Hi. And we’re seeing the kitty. When we work with the printer who is very collaborative, it always works out well. When we can go with a project that a client may have brought our way, or suggested something, even if it’s an early suggestion, then I tend to actually reach out to the printer very early on, especially if I have a good relationship with them. I don’t want to burn their time. I’m conscious that it takes their time. However, it helps make sure that the products we choose and the paper, if it’s a paper-based initiative we choose, or if it’s got something that has other apparatus with it, if it’s a display mechanism, or whatever it is, we need to be able to have a conversation about where it comes from. Is it sturdy? Can they hold it? Is it going to live out, if it lives outdoors? If it’s a piece of outdoor furniture, whatever, or a standing sign, or whatever the case may be.
We make sure those things work for what our partners are looking for, what our clients are looking for, what our client partners are looking for. When we talk with a printer, it’s one of the first things out the gate is really, hey, here’s what we have in mind, and I’ll make some suggestions. I’ll be like, here’s what I’m thinking, but I’d love to know if you have better suggestions. I remember, we working on one campaign. It was an awareness campaign. It was actually right at the end of the pandemic, or somewhere in the pandemic. One of our partners does an annual event. Obviously, with the COVID experience that we could not do a lot of in-person events. We talked with them, we reached out to the printer and we’re like, “Hey, we want to do some things and we’re thinking about using sidewalk signage as a way for people to do self-guided walks, to do initiatives where they could actually learn about the organization’s work.”
Rather than doing a 5K, or some kind of community experience, which you could not do during a pandemic, we could talk about doing something that didn’t do, obviously damage to the concrete, or was something that we could eventually at some point pull off the concrete, since it’s city property. But being able to put it down, have it stay sturdy and have it stay there for a month during the celebration period and have it be something that people could engage, the text would be legible, all that stuff. I had ideas for what I wanted it to be and the client had ideas and she was brilliant. She’s now the CEO of that organization. She’s brilliant. Being able to talk about that through with them and then being able to go to the printer and say, “Hey, this is what I’m thinking about. I know we have different adhesives and pieces that we can use to do that, but it’s also winter. We also want to make sure we’re able to get something that’s going to hold up for the month, but also not do damage. Something that’s not going to leave some color residue, or something else on the concrete itself.”
It ended up working out incredibly well. We had a great experience. People would go on their own. They could go on their own devices. It was all outdoors. Again, thinking about exposure to other folks, and it worked out incredibly well. But it was a really great example of being able to call that printer ahead of time and talk about what strategies they have, because we talked about having signage, instead of having stuff on the sidewalk, what opportunities there were in the sidewalk for us to be able to do it, how many of them. We felt like we wanted to do over a period of time that would be also within budget. They understood that. They understood that budget was part of the conversation and making sure that we could go back to our client partner with more than one option in the mix that all had goals of achieving the same end.
[0:36:57] DC: I mean, what a perfect lead in to my last question for you, which is when you’re balancing the creative idea with the client’s budget, especially with nonprofits, which are more money-minded in some cases than other types of customers, how do you work with your print partners to help you find the right balance between cost quality and impact?
[0:37:21] SL: Now, that’s a great question, too, right? Because we are dealing with realities, and especially small to mid-size. We specialize, we spend a lot of our time in small to mid-size businesses, organizations. We work with some national certainly as well, but the majority of our work is small to mid-size, regionals, some statewide and some regional-wide organizations. We are thinking about budget. We are thinking about also that balance between what they’re going to spend on sometimes digital components of a project and a campaign and print components of a campaign.
What I will say is I think we’ve gotten much more narrowed about the way in which we do mailers. Rather than doing a spray campaign, it’s much more focused. That is the benefit of having stronger CRMs. CRM, a customer relations management tool. Other things like that in the mix that help narrow in how many things need to be printed and go out, versus something that might be more digital, email campaigns and email systems, which we manage a lot of those, too. Being able to figure out where the print is going to have the most impact, because print does for non-profits specifically. I’m not talking about for profits right now. For non-profits can be really meaningful, because it is an opportunity to connect to people. Not just older advocates, which is really great, because they are more likely to send in checks even to this day. That happens. Makes sure that people have the opportunity to do that.
Also, it’s been a good way to recapture. Knowing not just people who have a history of giving, but also looking at people who may have lapsed and it’s a good way to actually show up in their mailbox, not their email box, which they may have stopped paying attention to and show up in their mailbox with something that’s a little bit of a kicker. Sometimes we’ll do something like an annual report. We won’t do a physical annual report, but we’ll do two or three mailers to go actually pushing them online to go see the digital report. Because the digital port gives them a chance to see the video and the other pieces. There is certainly an advantage to digital and we do appreciate that that’s there. But then, we want to supplement it with print to make sure that if we’re not getting their email, then we are getting them at home.
We are doing also in that mailer. It’s not just telling them to go check this out. We’re actually doing some reaffirmation of the things that are in that campaign. Maybe it’s a couple of key target points that we want to highlight about impact the organization has. We would use that as a good way to stair step that relationship.
[0:39:31] DC: It’s also a great way to do it in reverse, because print is a security device. You send a postcard, you send a letter to whomever you’re trying to reach on the digital channels and you say, “Hey, thank you so much for your past donations, whatever it might be. Watch your inbox for the next three months. We have a series.” Then I know when I see it, I don’t have to be a forensic digital detective and make sure, or another postcard with a QR code comes and I just scan it and go right to the digital property, without, “Should I click on this link? Is this the real email address?” Print is the best way to start, or strengthen a digital relationship, and even reconnect with people.
[0:40:20] SL: Even more important now, because we’re talking about email systems. You take Gmail, for example, but not only. Other systems are starting to pre filter.
[0:40:28] DC: Oh, yes.
[0:40:29] SL: For example, if you have –
[0:40:30] DC: As someone who sends a newsletter, I am well aware of this.
[0:40:34] SL: – that go to promotions, that go to other places and right, that actually reduces the likelihood it’s going to be seen, simply because once in a while, I’ll pop over to promotions, once in a while, I’ll pop over to updates. I’ll pop over there once in a while. Generally speaking, that’s not at my primary feed, and if I’m busy, I really don’t check the stuff that’s not at my primary feed. There actually may be more of a desire to return to some of those, what I – I guess, you call them print pushes, right? Just do a quick, a quick nudge. I don’t think we’ll see a return to large documents. I think that those will still be selective. When we do impact reports and other pieces, those are great for in-person handout having those, so those multi-page documents, or whatever you want to call it. We just finished up a case for support, for example. Those printed pieces still have a lot of weight and value, but the weight is actually the problem, because mailing it is hard.
Something like a postcard, or the thing like that that pushes people to the online forums is a better way to make sure, like you said, that you’re securing those eyes, get to that impact report, you get to carry those stories forward and people want them. Again, it’s something that I don’t think people don’t want. I don’t think we’re at a place where we’ve inundated people with those kind of reminders.
[0:41:43] DC: Yeah. There are such amazing marketing technology tools that you can attach to direct mail to know. I mean, I love using the examples of universities, when people are interested in attending, or they’re in recruiting season. I get a postcard that says something like, “Hey, we’d love to have you,” because they know whatever they know about you. They know that you’re graduating. They know you live in a certain state and there’s universities around you, right? They send you a postcard and you scan the QR code and go on. At that point, they know that you’re there. They know that you’re – which is fine. Now they could also know what you’re looking at. Are you looking at these sororities and fraternities? Are you looking at the sports that go on at that university? I was in the marching band, so I looked at the marching band.
Then the next touch point can be something that’s meaningful to me. See the amazing work that the fraternities and sororities are doing in the local community. Hey, check out this formation from the last Saturday football game. Whatever it might be, so you can continue using smaller priced print and then move people down. It’s still the sales funnel of the university till they sign up, right?
[0:43:10] SL: Yeah, absolutely.
[0:43:10] DC: Shoot them down until they sign up. When you speak to the universities, as soon as they see that people keep visiting that financial aid page, or the finance page, then they are ready to make their calls. They are ready to start sending things that are more meaningful about finances and things like that.
[0:43:31] SL: The idea that people will be able to have cultivated, curated exchanges with brands is already in process. We already know this. I think we’re already experiencing it. I think we’re at a point where we’re still negotiating how much of that feels good, how much of it doesn’t feel good. I think that’s where it’s so important that we have – I’m going to use these words all the time, because they just mean – the authentic and meaningful. It needs to be real. If I know I’m being sold to in a way that feels disingenuous, then I’m defensive, right? Immediately, I also distrust what you’re about to tell me, because I don’t think you’re telling me that in good faith. And meaningful in the sense that I need it to actually speak to my experience and that you understand what I’m trying to solve. If you’re coming at it from a business standpoint, what I’m passionate about seeing transform in the world, if you’re coming at it from a purpose-driven standpoint, these things need to be part of that conversation.
If you’re able to connect on those levels, I think you can be successful. It’s what really the crux of my first book is, really about the advocacy advantage, really pulling into this idea that what you’re looking to do is build advocates. Because you want them to feel that your success is their success. In most cases, in a modern-day business and in the way it works within the global environment, barring, I would say, large enterprises like Amazon and stuff like that, which feel very amorphous, for a lot of small to mid-sized businesses, there’s opportunity there to build something that feels very much invested in your communities.
That goes for, if you’re B2B, the same thing. If you’re a printer and you are building relationships with designers, if you’re building relationships with companies, then you build them – sales is nothing new. That’s not a different idea. But you are working with a generation and a generation that’s coming into place, which is going to perceive a lot of those institutional legacy pieces as being disingenuous. They’re looking for you to connect with them on a meaningful way, that you have purpose. If you look at studies and research that looks at Millennials and Gen Z as they enter and begin to lead some of the workforce, they want those relationships. They want to have meaningful relationships, because to them, work and operations and these experiences are part of their story. I think they want to be seen in that story.
It’s a little bit different. I think again, watching as a Gen Xer inheriting Boomers’ working ethic and then moving into these different ways of being. I think it’s also a different way we think about work. I think these universities, it’s the same thing, right? You have an opportunity to meet somebody where they’re at, where their interests are. If you oversell, right, if you’re if you’re overdoing it, they can tell. They know. They’re like, “Okay, well, now I don’t know that I trust this 100%, because I think your motivations are a little more suspect.” What we want to do is find that good balance, right?
The transparency about it being an exchange is nothing. That’s not surprising. Somebody will be able to tell very quickly if what you’re trying to sell, or something. They’re like, “You’re really either trying too hard, or I just don’t feel like I’m part of this and I feel you’re selling.”
[0:46:33] DC: Yeah. Nobody wants to be spoken at. They want to be spoken to. Shane, you are incredible. Everything you need to know about Shane Lukas, A Great Idea, his book, his TED Talks, his article from Graphic Design USA, and more is in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time and attention, everybody. Until next time, print long and prosper.
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[0:46:59] DC: Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com. We’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcast. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
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