[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:02] DC: This is the true story of two printers who agreed to podcast with me and have their opinions recorded. Listen to what happens when printers stop being polite and start getting real.
[0:00:14] JM: Hi, this is Jamie McLennan.
[0:00:15] WC: And this is William Crabtree.
[0:00:16] DC: And I’m your host, Deborah Corn. Welcome to the PrinterChat podcast.
Paper prices are rising again, and shipping costs continue to climb. Merchant and credit card processing fees are being added to vendor invoices. And suppliers are adding surcharges for large material orders, including skids of paper. Rising fuel costs are driving up transportation, freight, chemicals, ink, and raw material expenses across the supply chain. And many print businesses are trying to balance customer expectations with shrinking margins.
Major paper and packaging producers across North America, Europe, and Asia have announced additional 2026 price increases tied to rising fuel, freight, energy, chemical, and raw material costs. Increases now being passed through to the supply chain and to printers in the form of higher paper prices, shipping fees, fuel surcharges, and vendor added charges. Analysts across global shipping, energy, and pulp markets are warning that rising logistics and operating costs are becoming long-term business reality rather than a temporary disruption.
On this episode of PrinterChat, we are discussing how print businesses are dealing with rising operational costs, where companies are feeling the most pressure, and what strategies printers are using to protect margins without damaging customer relationships or going out of business.
Welcome to the PrinterChat podcast. I’m Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador. And I am joined by my PrinterChat co-host, Jamie McLennan, the General Manager and Senior Sales Executive at Innvoke Print & Marketing. Hello, Jamie.
[0:02:15] JM: Hello, Deborah. Hello, Will.
[0:02:17] DC: And we have William Crabtree, the Owner and President of Tampa Printer and Sign Parrot.
[0:02:25] WC: Hello, Deborah. And also, don’t forget the CEO of Printing in a Box and AutoPrint.
[0:02:30] DC: I wasn’t sure if we would mention that this month. I have to always catch up. Okay, gentlemen, let’s just start this conversation with thoughts about what I just shared with you. And I will say that I looked up actual stats, global stats, and they were so depressing I didn’t even put them in the introduction. Jamie?
[0:02:53] JM: Well, this has been going on for at least a month now. We’ve been getting letters weekly from our suppliers, anywhere from 5% to 10%. Prices have been going up on boards, acrylics, paper, labels, you name it. So, it’s something we’ve gone through in the past. We’re coping with it. We’re dealing with it. We’re talking with our customers and letting them know, “Hey, order now. This is what’s the best time to do.”
It’s something that all printers need to know and expect. So, it’s not going to be hidden. Everybody’s letting you know right now. And it’s changed quite a few times already. more than once we’ve got information from different suppliers saying, “Hey, expect this again in another month.” If things don’t change due to global circumstances, this is what’s happening. It’s just reality.
[0:03:35] DC: Will?
[0:03:36] WC: I mean it’s been coming for a while. The increased prices have been a threat for the last year and a half, two years. Inflation, everything that’s going on. Prices are going to increase. Prices are going to increase. And it’s happened a little bit. But now, this is the catalyst that is going to send it into overdrive. And then the other big fear is that, okay, so if the environment changes and gas prices go back down and everything goes back to normal, does it ever really go back to normal? Or now that the price is there, that’s the new price.
[0:04:10] DC: I mean, my chicken’s not getting any less expensive. I didn’t see any prices go down in the grocery store when the pandemic was over. I take what you just said, Will. And you’re right. I mean, even people who are getting the tariff money back, are you getting it back or just the suppliers? Right?
[0:04:30] WC: I’m not getting any tariff money back.
[0:04:31] JM: Who’s that?
[0:04:32] DC: Well, I’m just saying if you bought a press and you paid an additional fee for a tariff, the company you bought it from allegedly is getting that money back. So, you would think that maybe they were sharing it. I’m just saying they’re allegedly getting it back.
[0:04:48] WC: Yeah, good luck.
[0:04:48] JM: We bought a press. I haven’t heard anything about it. I just heard it’s getting delayed. We ordered it in March and said, “You got to sign the paper before the end of March. You’ll have it the beginning of May.” Now it’s like you might have it in June, the end of June. Yeah.
[0:05:00] DC: Right. I mean, there’s just things to pay attention to. That’s one of these things with these rebates, is that Amazon’s going to get the rebate. I’m not going to get the rebate cuz I paid three extra dollars for something that came from somewhere else.
Okay. There’s so many things that are rising at the moment, but I’m really curious. And Will, we’ll start with you. Which rising costs are creating the most pressure for you right now? And in general, what are you watching closely over the next 6 months until the end of the year?
[0:05:33] WC: Well, what I’m looking at is price increases versus accessibility, right? So we’ve kind of been in this boat where supply chains get disrupted. And that’s what we’re in right now, is supply chain has been disrupted, but the biggest supply chain. So fuel, energy, everything else, which trickles down so quickly. When supply chain is disrupted, accessibility becomes disrupted.
I, as a business owner, am less concerned about price. Yes, I need to be conscious of it. I’m going to look at increasing costs where I need to. Garment right now is a big one. We haven’t increased any of our garment costs. The actual cost of the garment itself, we’ve maintained that price. But now we’re breaking even on the garment. We’re still making money on the printing and the production. But we really need to be at a point where we’re at least making a slight margin on the garment. Before it was around a 50% margin. There was still a decent margin on garments, but that’s all gone. So we’ve lost all of that with tariffs and everything else that’s been going on. We have to increase that cost. But that’s just one example.
But again, as a business owner, I’m more concerned with having enough inventory to when the supply chain gets disrupted when I can’t get access to it. Think about back when COVID, and I was like, “Okay, I will fill the trailer. I don’t care.” So, I’m still concerned with pricing, but I’m also more concerned with having enough inventory to weather the storm if disruption comes.
But that’s also another fine line because if you gamble and you buy too much and then the price goes down because everything, “Oh, everything’s fine and dandy. And there was no disruption.” It’s a dice that you have to roll. But again, from my standpoint, I’m more concerned with having accessibility because I can weather any storm as long as I have enough material to produce. Where if I don’t have any material, I can’t make any money at all.
[0:07:26] DC: I don’t have any knowledge of the apparel supply chain. I’m assuming when you say garments, you’re talking about t-shirts, blanks, or hats. What are you speaking of? How does that usually get to you? From overseas?
[0:07:39] WC: It starts from overseas and then it lands here. You have SanMar and Alphabroder, the two bigger distributors in the United States. There’s several others. And they have distribution facilities throughout the US. They buy in bulk from China, the manufacturer, warehouse and distribute. And the cost of what we used to pay for a blank Gildan white 5.3-ounce t-shirt has gone up by 50% in the last 6 months at least. And the garment costs are actually the ones that have increased the most the quickest. Out of the things that I buy from like substrates, roll media –
[0:08:18] DC: Why? Just because the fuel coming over. Why? 50%’s a lot.
[0:08:23] WC: I think it’s just more tariff-driven. I don’t really know all of the math behind it. All I know is –
[0:08:27] DC: Okay, that would make sense. Yeah.
[0:08:29] WC: I look at the numbers, and I look at what I paid before, and the margins that we had before versus what we pay now, and the margins we have now. I mean, we look at it per job. We have a thing that breaks that down. Before we were making money on it. Now we see it, and it’s like, “Oh, no. We’re barely skating by the skin of our teeth when we buy the shirts that we have to print on.”
[0:08:48] DC: That’s crazy, Will. 50%. That’s insane. And what about for the next – towards the end of the year? Do you start paying attention to anything that you know you need certain supplies towards the end of the year and what you might do about that?
[0:09:01] WC: I’m really now kind of starting to dive into it. And to be honest, this topic kind of lit the fire. I touched base with my production manager in the paper department today and I said, “How much paper do we have in inventory?” And he said, “Oh, we’ve got a lot.” And I was like, “Well, let’s look and see.” Because I would like to have at least one skid, if not two skids of 14 pt. C2S on the floor.
[0:09:22] DC: And envelopes. Don’t forget the envelopes.
[0:09:25] WC: Yeah, envelopes. We don’t do as much envelopes anymore.
[0:09:27] DC: I know, but you were going crazy in the pandemic. You were like selling them. You had so many envelopes.
[0:09:32] WC: I still have so many. I have so many envelopes. But no, the 14 pt. C2S, or 16 pt. C2S, 16 pt. uncoded, 100-pound gloss text. I mean papers that we’re jamming through day to day to day. I want enough inventory on the floor where we’re looking at instead of keeping enough for a month, I’d rather have three months on the floor. And I would gamble that what I pay now won’t go down to the point that I lose money. And we’re talking about nominal markups in that over the course of that time. But I would rather have it versus not have access to it.
[0:10:05] DC: Jamie, you have different products that you’re dealing with where you are. Although, Innvoke in general deals with everything. What are the costs that are creating the most pressure for you right now?
[0:10:17] JM: Right now, what’s creating the most pressure is actually gas prices, believe it or not. Because I mean we do a lot of deliveries, Innvoke Cranbury. I mean, a lot of that’s B2B, right around that area. And we have vans out every day delivering. And that charge is getting bigger and bigger. That’s so much that we’re like, “Do we add a little bit extra? What are we going to do?”
Usually, there’s a delivery fee charged for a lot of things, but some of the customers that are right next door, they don’t get charged because they’re within a couple miles. They’re not right there. Bigger jobs, yeah, because you have to put a bigger truck or something like that. But everything out of Conshohocken is going on a skid. That’s definitely going trucked out, either our truck, or our customer’s truck, or a messenger. Those prices are increasing. So we have to pass that along.
And then some of the other things is like Will said, papers and stuff like that. We keep a good stock of the 100-pound gloss cover text, all that. Some of our staples are workhorses in cranberry. Here we always pretty much stocked on styrene and PVCs. But it’s the odd things, like black styrene and stuff like that where it’s prices are going through the roof. And they actually changed three times in the last couple months. I’m working on a couple projects, and they’re like, “You need to order it now because the price just went up again.” Before the next price increase. I’m passing that on to customers going, “Hey, this is what’s going on.” The longer you wait, the more things are going to cost. So lock it in. If you know this is happening, lock it in. Let’s get it done.
And just we’ll hold it, but let’s get it on the floor. Because when some of these things are going, they’re not jumping to make it again. Couple of the suppliers I had, they’re like, “Well, once it’s out, we’re not going to make more right away.” It’s going to be a few weeks, five weeks before that’s made again because it’s not a big seller or something like that. Some of the crazy or the not so common things are going to take longer to get. And we’ve been doing a lot of uncommon materials. We’ve been running a lot of magnet. We actually bought out our supplier of magnet a couple times.
[0:12:02] DC: Remember Yugo from PrintChat? I just saw him at ISA. So, he’s got magnets up in Canada.
[0:12:09] JM: Yeah. We went through two jobs, 150 rolls of magnet in April. That’s a lot of magnets. And then we just bought the rest of it because we have a couple more projects. So that’s a big seller for us right now. We got to stay on top of that and make sure pricing is where we said it’s going to be. And make sure that we can get enough in and hold it on the floor.
[0:12:25] DC: Will, did you want to jump in?
[0:12:27] WC: Yeah, I was just going to say you have to think about how many different stages of production and manufacturing something goes through before it actually gets to us, whether it’s roll media, substrate, and so forth. Petroleum is a main ingredient in almost all of it.
So, if the supply chain is cut off for the main ingredient, there’s only so much inventory of so many things, it’s going to trickle down, you’ll be amazed at how fast it does, right? No one’s talking about that because everybody’s worried about gas prices and fuel and everything else, which is huge impact, right? Transportation is massive and massive. But think about all of the other things that come from petroleum and come from oil as an ingredient and the supply chains associated with that.
Be mindful. Don’t go crazy. Communicate with your reps, your sales reps, with the distributors that you work with. Because everybody that we work with is a distributor. Nobody’s a manufacturer, right? They’re reselling. They’re buying things, they’re warehousing them, and then they’re distributing to us printers, right? We’re like the end user before the end user, right?
Communicate with your people and your sales reps and say, “Hey, how much of this do you have? If you’re starting to get low, let me know so that I can buy a bunch.” Which is why it’s really important to have good relationships with your sales people.
[0:13:41] DC: It is. I would also say that you never exactly know where you are in that salesperson’s list of the 10 people they have to take care of.
[0:13:50] WC: You don’t.
[0:13:51] DC: So, I’m just saying now is a good time to make friends with the Mills.
[0:13:54] JM: I know Jamie’s really good friends with all of his people. I’m not so much.
[0:13:58] DC: Yeah. Well, I can’t imagine why, Will.
[0:14:00] JM: They do listen to our podcast because I was at a show last week, and they’re all like, “Oh, we listen to you guys. Thanks for shouts and stuff like that.” So, yeah, that’s fun.
[0:14:09] DC: Okay. Well, they better be giving you the supplies you need. Jamie, I want to ask you what you’re watching closely over the next six months. But I thought it was very interesting that both of you are the most concerned about paper right now. Nobody’s talking about ink or chemicals. I mean, you use a lot of specialty ink, don’t you, Jamie? I mean, does that all come from the United States?
[0:14:31] JM: No, not all of it. No. But right now we’re told that inventories are good. We’re keeping an eye on it. And we’re doing what we can to make sure we have what we need. But yeah, that’s always a concern. Because one day you’re like, “Hey, there’s no more cyan.” What do you mean there’s no more cyan? Something like that could happen. It runs low or something like that.
We’ve gotten calls from other people asking us if we had some ink because they were running low. Could we borrow some ink? And when we get it, we’ll give it back to you. Hopefully, maybe they just didn’t plan well or they had a giant job that ran a certain color out. But I remind my pressman all the time, keep a look at that. What’s on the shelf? What do we need? This is what’s going on the next couple weeks. Make sure we’re stocked, and make sure we’re doing that. And the inks that we buy for like our flatbed presses are all on a yearly contract. The more we buy, they give us better prices as we go. Hopefully that’s going to – it depends on the volume. So, that helps.
[0:15:23] DC: Have they raised the prices on you yet?
[0:15:25] JM: They have not raised the prices. Probably in the beginning of the year, but it’s been steady since then. They kind of looked. But then they’ll look at our volume for the year, and then they all give us discount back.
[0:15:36] DC: All right, that’s cool. And what are you watching closely for the next six months?
[0:15:41] JM: Magnet. Because we’re coming up with busy seasons with that. Black acrylic, because we’ve got a couple projects going on with that that we’re watching it. And I got a couple people making sure. They’re calling me if something happens because we’re going to need that.
I mean our staples are PVC and styrene here over in Pennsylvania. We’re always keeping an eye on that, like I said. And we got political mail coming up. We’re doing some stuff for the spring right now, but the fall is going to be big. So, we need to make sure we have plenty of 100-pound gloss cover on hand. We’ll start looking at that to stock up a couple skids. If not, probably have four skids on hand as the middle of the summer comes along.
[BREAK]
[0:16:18] DC: Get ready to turn up the volume on print. PrintFM is a global internet radio station dedicated exclusively to print and graphic communications, accessible around the clock in every time zone. No more searching across channels and apps. PrintFM brings relevant topical programming from Print Media Centr, Girls Who Print, and an array of industry contributors who bring their own perspectives, guests, and conversations to the mix. PrintFM also broadcasts from industry events, with live shows being scheduled throughout the year. Visit printfm.com to explore our daily programming, event schedules, and opportunities to share your content or sponsor our shows. Expert discussions, real-world insight, and industry voices are just a click away. Listen long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:17:18] DC: I want to offer something to pay attention to, which was actually brought up by a printer who reached out to me asking a question. And what he said was that I guess the thing that he’s affiliated with allows for customers to put in what they want and get a quote, and then decide whether or not to send the files over to print. And what he was noticing was that. Or it’s like a bidding site where people upload jobs and then a whole bunch of printers bid on it, and then they send it to whichever vendor that they pick.
But he reached out because he said that he has never had more inquiries and requests for proposals, and people not buying anything from him. And he wanted to know if I had any insight into that. And I was like, “Well, my only insight is that there’s uncertainty in the world, and everybody is price shopping right now. Everybody.”
If you’re just a number on a list right now, I’m not saying it’s the best way to be, but that’s how I see it. I think that that is something to really look at. Are people dropping off your website before they make a purchase? You know what I’m saying? If you have one of the – Will has online purchasing, and design, and things like that. Are you getting a ton of estimate requests, and then the customers are ghosting you?
I mean, it could be because of price. But then there might be a way for you to still win those jobs if you can add some value to it, not discounting, because there is no more discounts anymore, right? I just think that that is something that I would look at. What do you think about that?
[0:19:03] JM: I see a lot of volume in quotes going up. There’s a lot of RFQs going out. But I think it’s our customers reaching out to people they haven’t before and trying to win new work. A couple of them, I’ve reached out to them and saying, “Hey, we’ve never quoted this before. What’s going on?” They’re like, “Look, we’re trying a couple new avenues that we’ve never tried before.” He’s like, “Work with us. We’re going to see if we can get into this market.” Stuff like that.
So, some of our customers are actually branching out and trying to go in different directions to get more work. And a couple of our longtime customers are basically quoting a lot of things saying, “Hey, this is not happening right now, but we want to have this in the tank.” Going, “We know what it costs now. We can let people know. Hey, it might go up. But here’s where you’re at right now if you don’t act quick.” I mean, some of those aren’t happening, but they’re trying to be proactive and at least let their customers know what the pricing is, even though it might not happen right away.
[0:19:47] DC: I guess that’s fair. Will, are you making any operational changes to address the rising business costs and potentially not as much profit because of that?
[0:20:01] WC: I mean, we’ve been making operational costs over the last couple of years.
[0:20:06] DC: Adjustments?
[0:20:07] WC: Adjustments, whatever you want to call it. We run pretty lean. We’re actually hiring.
[0:20:11] DC: Wow. Good for you.
[0:20:12] WC: We’re in one of those places where we’re actually looking for help and looking for people.
[0:20:15] DC: Press people, designers, which ones?
[0:20:18] WC: Design, customer service, and logistics.
[0:20:20] DC: Cool.
[0:20:21] WC: So, if you’re in Tampa, you hear this and you’re looking for a gig, hit me up. Tampa Printer. But from a workflow standpoint, from the standpoint of optimizing, we have bandwidth. We have room that we can produce more with what we have. From the logistics, operations, all that standpoint, we’re about the point, I mean, we are hiring. So we’re at that kind of ceiling.
But what I think is important and what I’m looking at is again being prepared, but not being overprepared. Communicating, communicating with your clients. I’m still doing business acquisition or client acquisition is what I should say. So trying to find unique ways to do client acquisition that are not strenuous or time-consuming. And using AI to find solutions to do that, which I’ve been successful with.
Most of my operational adjustments have been driven towards marketing and again driving new traffic and new business while we do a really good job at maintaining our existing clients and keeping our existing clients happy. That’s also a big thing is retention, follow-up. We talk about having a lot of new quotes and bids, or people requesting things that are not converting. We see a huge success when we do follow-up. So, I created a system for follow-up. I made this whole report where anyone that’s logged into the website, anyone that’s got an estimate, anyone that’s created a new account that hasn’t talked to somebody yet, all of those things get documented. And then each CSR is assigned one of those accounts to do follow-ups with to ensure that it closes. And then they get spiffs if it does.
We’ve gamified and created incentives for our CSRs to capture those things back. We’ve even done it with the reviews. On top of the review wheel, now the CSRs get a spiff if they get a review that mentions their name. We have so many reviews now, it’s crazy. All of these little things have helped with our sales and keeping things and the momentum going. We’ve been fortunate so far and not seen a massive dip in sales. We’ve seen some, but we’ve been able to acquire new business and then capture a lot of these, let’s call them tire kickers, right? People that wouldn’t necessarily convert but are now because we’re being the voice that’s coming back and saying, “Hey, so they’re getting an email. They’re getting a call. Do you need a discount on this so that we can get this closed?” Showing the sense of urgency to get it converted because that price might go up later, and we can give you a discount now. All of those variables kind of put together is what’s keeping the train moving and keeping it at a point where it’s not going down, but it’s at least plateauing.
[0:23:01] DC: Yeah. Just to go back for a second, Will has a wheel that you spin if you go to the lobby of his print shop.
[0:23:08] WC: A review wheel, yeah.
[0:23:09] DC: The review wheel. And while you’re standing there, if you open up your social media and write a review for them, whatever prize you got on the wheel is what you get, which is great.
[0:23:19] WC: You have to leave the review before you get to spin the wheel. You don’t get to spin the wheel and see what prize you get and then leave the review.
[0:23:28] DC: Okay, fine. I did it the other way.
[0:23:29] WC: You have to leave the review first, then spin the wheel. And we have gift cards for a couple local restaurants, but it’s $100 in free printing, or a high five, and everything kind of in between.
[0:23:41] DC: They’re great prizes. I love that. I would just spin the wheel for a fun one every time I come over.
[0:23:45] WC: So, any printers that are listening to this, if you want one, I’ll make one custom for you. It’s not for free, but we do make them.
[0:23:52] DC: That’s so nice.
[0:23:52] WC: Unless you’re in Tampa, you can’t have one.
[0:23:55] DC: He’s going to geofence your business if you call him, so do not do it. Any operational changes you’re making to address rising costs, Jamie?
[0:24:04] JM: No operational changes? No. Like Will said, we’re also hiring. We’re looking for a couple sales reps. We need an assistant in our packaging and bindery area in Pennsylvania. We just hired a couple people down in our Georgia plant for sales and CSR. We’re looking to grow and keeping that momentum going. But as for changes in operations, no, we’re keeping everything.
I mean, we try and be as streamlined as we can, trying to make sure we’re not – can’t ever say that we have too many people. We could always use more, but we have room to grow. So, once we get that capability, that’s when we make that decision. If we’re busy for so long, we know we need to add somebody in the department.
Like I said briefly earlier, the one operational change is getting a new press that’s coming soon. And we’re actually looking at another roll press just because of how busy we’ve been with some of our roll capabilities that have been backed up. I’d rather have capability than tell customer they have to wait a little bit longer. So, we’re kind of looking at that right now to say, “Hey, if we make that purchase now, how will that help us?” We don’t need another press operator because we can have two running tandem next to each other, and that’ll help. And then keep the volume at a manageable pace where we’re not. Having somebody stay late to keep running things and keeping extra things. We’re just trying to keep an eye on that.
[0:25:12] DC: Yeah. All right. I have two things to offer. Some of these you guys might do already, which is why you didn’t mention them. But for anybody who might not be thinking about this, quote expiration windows. You can’t let people linger with quotes for a month anymore. The gas prices could go up tomorrow 200%. So, it’s kind of like you snooze, you lose. All those tire kickers kick away. But you have two weeks before you have to re-quote this with me. Jamie’s laughing. Why are you laughing, sir?
[0:25:43] JM: I’ve had a lot of quotes lately come back from like September, October that I’ve marked as lost or not happening, and they’re like, “Hey, this has come back around.” I’m like, “All right. Well, it’s a lot more expensive now.” But I’ve had a lot in the last two weeks. It’s been funny.
[0:25:56] DC: Yeah. Well, I mean, when I used to work in Canada, they would give me quotes that would last for a certain amount of time, like 3 months, due to the exchange rates. Whether they went up or down, I was locked into my price, whatever it might be.
The other end of that is payment policies for your customers who might be in worse positions than you’re aware of, and they’re ordering print. And they’re on a 30-day, 45-day payment terms. And sorry, Jamie. You’ve been great. Will, you’ve been great. But I don’t have the money. How do you address that? Or are you even thinking about that?
[0:26:40] WC: I’m very restrictive on terms. The majority of our clients pay upfront. We don’t do COD. We don’t do deposits. My government contracts, we do purchase orders and terms with. And then I have a couple of hand selected, very long-time, very high-end clients that we extend terms to. Outside of that, I mean, we have a pretty – I mean, it’s an application. It’s really just a contract that says that we’re extending you terms. But most people don’t even want to sign that or even go through the application process. Sorry, we’re not going to give you terms.
It’s funny, I just went through a deal. You would appreciate this, Deborah. I went through a deal with a marketing agency. Through City of St. Pete, where we have the contract for the banners, the Dalí Museum has a new installation going in. And the new installation, the artist had hired a marketing agency to represent them. And the marketing agency that represented them approached the city about doing banners. And they asked the city if the city would sign a contract with them. And the city said absolutely not.
The city then asked me if I would sign a contract with the marketing agency, and I said, “No. Absolutely not. My contract is with you, the city. And then I have a contract that I require my clients to sign.” They go through the rigmarole, gets to me, time to deal with artwork and payment and everything else, and they send me a contract that has all of this claw back for if they don’t get paid and all kinds of crazy stipulations. And I was like, “Nope, I’m not signing this.” I sent them the most redlined contract that you’ve ever seen. They basically got one paragraph that said that we will remove, delete, destroy any collateral that has anything to do with your client. We won’t distribute it. Outside of that, we don’t agree to any of your terms. You agree to ours. And then they send me my contract through their system to sign.
[0:28:27] DC: Oh, that’s funny.
[0:28:29] WC: I knew you would appreciate that from the agency standpoint.
[0:28:31] DC: We also had that conversation, and I couldn’t understand why a marketing agency would have to have a contract with you except for usage rights.
[0:28:41] WC: It was very heavy. And like we don’t get paid, you don’t get paid. And even if we do pay you and then we don’t get paid later, you owe us. It was crazy. But anyway, the point being is that if you do have a lot of those clients, and if you’ve got a lot of those clients that haven’t paid you on time, now’s the time to start trying to collect.
[0:28:58] DC: Yeah. Actually, that’s even smarter than my suggestion, which is now’s the time to call Gorilla Pete and make all your collections.
[0:29:07] WC: Yeah.
[0:29:08] DC: Totally. Okay, I want to ask you each a question. And then if you want to chime in, feel free. Jamie, what are mistakes that printing companies can avoid under rising costs pressure?
[0:29:26] JM: Panicking. Don’t panic. I mean, I saw it during COVID. Some people went crazy and bought all kinds of materials for screens, and acrylic, and stuff like that. And then they ended up with so much on the floor they couldn’t use it, couldn’t do anything with it. Don’t panic. Don’t panic buy. Make sure check all your sources. Make sure your suppliers are getting you the best prices and deal with a couple good suppliers that you deal with.
Be upfront with your customers. Let them know, “Hey, prices are constantly going up. I get letters.” I’ll show my customer my letter, like, “Hey, this is what’s happening. This is what our suppliers are sending to us. This is what they’re expecting over the next long term.” I’m working on a couple big projects for the end of summer, beginning of September. And right now, a bunch of the suppliers I deal with, they’re like, “We don’t know what’s going to happen. We’re hoping it’s going to stay steady or come back down.”
But your best bet is to add 10% on it right now and then let your customer know this is bumped up a little bit. Well, you might be able to come back down a little bit when it actually happens. A few of the customers, I said, “Look, August 5th, we’re going to reach out. See where the material is, see what’s available, what the price is. And then you have to decide because we need it at the end of August or beginning of September to make your deadline.” Let’s just be upfront. Keep tabs on all the materials that you’re working with now. And don’t panic. Don’t get a truckload. If you only need a couple skids or a carton or two, don’t buy too much. And then, all of a sudden, be down the road going, “I have all this extra material. What am I going to do with it?” I’ve seen that happen a few times.
[BREAK]
[0:30:47] DC: Gentlemen, leadership isn’t just about making decisions. It’s about setting the tone. Joining Girls Who Print as a male ally sends a clear message. You’re committed to advocacy, mentorship, professional growth, and creating a space where everyone can thrive. Membership gives you access to a powerful global network, exclusive events, conversations, and resources that support meaningful progress. Whether you’re an owner, manager, colleague, or peer, your presence makes a difference and helps shape the future you’d want for your colleagues, your clients, and your daughters. Learn more about ally membership at girlswhoprint.org. Link in the show notes. Empower long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:31:37] DC: Something else to consider is to try to get your customers to switch to bank transfers versus credit cards. This way you don’t have to deal with anyone’s credit card issues. You could just get the money directly out of their bank account. And also, just to try to look at the customers that you make the most money from and just make sure that you’re still working with them.
And the only other thing I want to add to that before we see if Will has something to say is that anybody who answers a phone or is dealing with somebody going, “This cost me this much last year, and now it’s three times as more,” to really be coached on how to respond to that. And not in a defensive way, but in a we’re all in this together way. Do they go to the gas station owner and scream in their face because the thing is now 450 instead of 250? No, they have to deal with it if they want gas.
I’m not saying to deal with it that way, but I’m just saying I think that if someone’s having a crisis over something, and I’m talking about the customer now, the last thing you want to hear is somebody like, “Well, what do you want me to do about it?” That’s just something to think about to coach the team on what is the position of our company. What if they say, “Well, if the gas price comes down, is your printing price going to come down?” I mean, what would the answer be to that? I’ve got to speak to someone and get back to you? Maybe just think about things like that. Will, any comments?
[0:33:07] WC: I echo what Jamie is saying. I agree, but also finding a happy medium. Yeah, don’t go buck wild and buy truckloads of materials. But again, be conscious that access may become limited. And keep enough to keep the lights on. And communicate with the people that you know that you get it from. Get an idea of what they’ve got laying around. And when things go crazy, know where you got to go.
I like what you’re saying about communicating and having the team communicating well and having a rebuttal script of, “Well, my price was going up and da-da-da-da-da.” Well, this is why. We haven’t really changed pricing too much. We’ve made some new products and some adjustments and introduced new things. And in doing that in new production methods, we’ve actually been able to reduce some prices.
Finding where you can reduce costs in addition to raising costs. Because if it’s a shit sandwich of like, “Hey, we dropped the price on this, but we raised the price on this. And we dropped the price on this,” it’s a little bit easier to swallow, even if it’s just by a little bit. Trying to find creative ways to sugarcoat it, which is kind of a shitty way to say it. But at least if your clients know that you’re working for them and that you’re there to support them versus trying to exploit them and get as much money out of them as you possibly can, you’re going to create more loyalty.
And on the other end of this, the loyalty is going to go a lot further than, “Hey, I’m going to get as much out of you as I can today, and I don’t care what happens tomorrow.” That’s always been my idea of good business is that I want to do business with people that want a long-term relationship. I’m not trying to get the most out of you today. I want to work with you tomorrow and the day after. And I want us to be beneficial together. And I’m going to make some money along the way, but I don’t have to make it all today.
[0:34:54] DC: Okay. I like that philosophy. And you make your money, girl. You make your money. But in that, you’ve both mentioned a couple of things. Don’t panic. Don’t overpurchase supplies. Don’t overcorrect until there’s a plan. And those are all great. Will, is there anything else you can think of that would be a mistake a printing company could make as they’re getting more pressure of these rising costs and margins are shrinking. I mean, yours went away from 50%. I mean, that is crazy.
[0:35:27] WC: And to be clear, the garment itself is one of the cheapest parts of a t-shirt, right?
[0:35:32] DC: Was.
[0:35:33] WC: Was. I mean you’re paying $2, $3 a shirt. Now you’re paying $4, $5 a shirt, and then you’re charging $10, $12 a shirt. The ink and the labor is the majority.
[0:35:44] DC: Okay. But I don’t want to pay $20 for a shirt. I’m just saying.
[0:35:47] WC: Correct. Yes. Yes. But the mistake that you can make is ignore it. Is stick your head in the sand and pretend that it’s not happening, because that’s the worst thing that you can do. You have to be aware. You have to understand that the world is changing and it’s continuing to change. And it hasn’t stopped changing in the last six years since COVID happened.
We’re in an evolving economy. We’re in an evolving atmosphere. And you have to be aware of it if you’re a business owner. And you have to be willing to make changes and do adjustments. Because if you’re set in your ways and you want to stick your head in the sand, then you’re not going to make it to the other side.
[0:36:26] DC: Excellent. Jamie, any comments?
[0:36:28] JM: I totally agree with that. Because you don’t want to be three months down the road from now and go, “I’m not making any margin.” You need to pay attention to that, and you need to make sure everything in your system is correct, so you’re not just guessing down the road. Hey, materials went up. Or I adjusted some prices on materials. But I didn’t look at ink, or I didn’t look at this, I didn’t look at that. And then, all of a sudden, three months, six months down the road, you’re like, “We didn’t make any money this year. What are we going to do?”
[0:36:54] WC: Oh, I’ve been going down the checklist. I mean, I need toner. I’m going to do a whole supply fire drill tomorrow and make sure that I’ve got enough on the floor for everything, for every machine. I got everything on the floor. I’m not waiting on anybody for anything. We’re self-sustainable for at least a couple months. And we’ll continue to just keep that in inventory and use things as we need to.
[0:37:15] DC: All right. I’m going to add just one to this section, which is if you wait too long to update your prices and your policies, it’s going to seem reactive rather than proactive. And now you guys know I’m not a math person. But if you raise prices now and customers are paying it, and another increase comes and you don’t have to raise them because you’ve already accounted for them, you’re going to be ahead of everybody else. Because now everybody else has to raise their prices to what it is and a little more, but you’re already there. You might be breaking even or close to breaking even in that next go around, but then you’ll be ahead again if they have to raise. Does that make sense what I’m saying?
[0:38:04] WC: It does. And that’s sort of where we’ve been for the last couple of years and the benefit that we’ve had. And we also have our upticks, right? So we have the baseline. But then if you need it tomorrow, there’s an extra charge for that, right? That’s where we gain a lot of margin is that we have the luxury taxes, I guess we could call them, of like the things that you don’t have to have to get your job done. But if you want them, you’re going to pay more for them. And that’s where we make more money. But that in conjunction with never being the lowest, never being the highest. Now we’re kind of more on the low side price-wise. So we have room to go up to be back up into that mid-range.
[0:38:47] DC: Right. And then you’ll kind of meet where everybody else is. So you still won’t be more expensive. That’s a good strategy. Jamie?
[0:38:54] JM: We pretty much set our prices. We know what the costs are for normal price run jobs. But a lot of the things that we’ve been doing lately are larger. So we’re always getting competitive prices. The piece price might be less per paper or per thousand, or if it’s boards, if it’s so many boards. We’re always making sure we have the best price for the time with it going up. Say we need 100 boards of something. That price is going to be cheaper than if we only need 10. We’re always looking at that. It’s the smaller jobs where we have a set price in the system. So many sheets cost this much. That’s the per thousand price, whatever. That price kind of stays the same for a long time until you start double-checking paper costs.
But for the larger jobs, we’re always looking to get the best price, checking prices on that and material prices. So we’re competitive on that. That way we’re where we need to be, but it won’t go up crazy when things start going up higher because we’ve been checking them weekly basically. Making sure we’re there. So, we do that all the time.
[0:39:48] DC: I just thought of one more thing, which is the drip price increases, where your press person or whoever orders press supplies might notice that there’s an additional $2 service charge on this. And the person who orders paper, there’s an additional credit card fee. Now, nobody might have a full view of all of that as far as it goes to this job didn’t just cost us $2 more. It actually cost us $200 more because no one’s accounting for all these little things. I kind of look at – if you remember this thing, there used to be this thing called a cable bill. Did you guys ever get one of those?
[0:40:27] WC: Yeah.
[0:40:28] DC: When I lived in New York City, I would open up the cable bill, and I would be like, “What are all these freaking charges for? New York City subway? All this stuff.” Because that’s where they run the cable lines through and the telephone lines through the subways. There’s no telephone poles in Manhattan.
All of a sudden, my cable is now – I’m paying 20 cents to the subway people, and $4 to the city people, because the cable people have to drive on those roads. And, all of a sudden, it doesn’t look like a lot. 19 cents here, 20 cents. But, all of a sudden, my cable bill is $8 more a month, which doesn’t seem like a big deal. But if you put that on a ton of paper, or a skit of paper, or a job of 20,000 –
[0:41:15] JM: Hundreds of jobs.
[0:41:17] DC: Yeah. I mean, magazines, all of a sudden, you’re like, “Okay, maybe we’re actually not making any money on this job. Maybe we’re losing it.” Unless you get a grip on all of those costs.
[0:41:29] WC: Death by a thousand cuts.
[0:41:30] DC: Exactly. In the systems that you guys use, does he give you all of that? Can somebody see it somewhere where the estimator, or whoever’s figuring that out, that there’s more costs actually for the job than people are aware of?
[0:41:47] JM: The estimator can see what the costs are right now, what the paper prices are and material costs. And then if it’s a large amount and they’re charging a surcharge to deliver it, that can be all caught up front. Some of the other small charges here and there, like chipboard cost or something that gets bought in bulk and gets delivered, that just comes off the top of this quote or something like that. It’s probably not seen till later. So the accounting people are going back and looking over that and going, “Oh, this doesn’t look right, or this doesn’t look right.” Or somebody didn’t charge for proofs this time or something like that. That’s not a lot. But if that happens on 100 jobs, something like that, you’re losing a little bit of your margin. Something like that. But it could be certain fees like that. I just mentioned proofs, but it could be some kind of strange fee, like the charge that whatever the paper company’s charging, we’re paying by credit card or something.
[0:42:32] DC: Please, I used to pay printers a 30% convenience charge if I ordered my own paper, and they had to take it off the truck. Don’t look at me like that.
[0:42:41] JM: Yeah, I’m sure there’s a little fee somewhere. But I don’t know if the estimator sees that unless they’re brought to their attention. It’s probably further downstream that, like I said, don’t look three months from now or six months from now. And start looking at your jobs going, “Hey, we’re losing money somewhere.” You need to be cognizant of that now and check all those costs to make sure they’re included.
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[0:43:01] DC: News From The Printerverse delivers topical sales and marketing insight, along with plenty of printspiration, one time a month to inboxes everywhere. Our contributors cover the industry and the future of print media and marketing with strategy for strengthening your customer relationships, better targeting of your prospects, and practical advice for helping your business grow. Printspiration is just a click away. Subscribe to News From The Printerverse at printmediacentr.com. Print long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:43:37] DC: Is there a way to just say, “Okay, for every $100, we’re adding a $10 convenience fee, service charge, something to cover those little guys.” Or is it better just to work it into the –
[0:43:52] WC: 10%’s heavy?
[0:43:53] DC: I’m just making up a number.
[0:43:55] JM: $10.
[0:43:56] WC: The easiest thing that most vendors are doing is adding the credit card processing fee, right? If you’re absorbing your credit card processing, adding that back in is an easy solution to increase prices, which is why you’re seeing it so widespread right now across many industries. But a convenience fee, we have a thing built into the software where the CSR can add a convenience fee because they had to take the order for you instead of you placing it online. I don’t do that. I haven’t done that, but it’s something that’s really easy to do. But finding ways to do it as the printer because it’s being done to you, it’s like it’s kind of messed up. Like, “Oh, they’re doing it to me, I should do it to you, too.”
[0:44:37] DC: Well, no. I like what you’re saying about charging the fees. And that’s also a way to get people to do the bank transfers and make sure that you don’t have issues with credit cards or anything like that.
[0:44:47] WC: Well, incentivize it.
[0:44:49] DC: Yeah. Any final thoughts on that one?
[0:44:51] JM: Dot your i’s and cross your t’s, and just double check things.
[0:44:55] DC: Excellent. Okay. So, the last thing I wanted to bring up is that every cloud has a silver lining, right? At least we want to try to be a little optimistic about it. I started thinking about where opportunities might exist despite these challenges. The first thing that came to me was all of the verticals out there that cannot, under any circumstances, eliminate print from their world. They can’t. They’re not allowed.
They might reduce the volume. They might reduce the frequency. They might reduce the quality of the materials to save money, but they cannot stop mailing bills and statements. They cannot stop putting labels on medicine bottles. They can’t stop putting labels and packages on shelves. There’s elections, government entities, as Will mentioned before about the city of St. Petersburg.
Education. There’s still textbooks out there. There’s still recruiting goes on at schools. There’s still a lot of things. The direct marketing people, the mailers, they’re still going to mail. Mail is going to mail, right? But like I said, they might not mail as much or as frequent, but it’s not going to stop. Charities can’t stop. Nonprofits can’t stop. There’s a lot of things that just can’t stop. Any sort of loyalty programs aren’t going to stop. I still get my Delta Sky Miles thing. Although, I’d like to announce that as of now, I’m not even a gold for next year. Okay? We’ll try to deal with that at some point in time.
Financial documents. And I understand that not everybody can print for American Express. I get it. But if somebody has to send somebody a statement or a bill, I mean, I get them from my accountant. There’s still work like that that has to go on. Industrial and manufacturing, you might not get how to put this thing together anymore in the desk you get from IKEA, but there’s something in that box. There’s some sort of information in there.
And of course, safety labels, technical documentation, any sort of operational signage, or even here’s the eyewash if there’s a problem in the – there’s a chemical issue. Hotels are not going to stop printing. Events are not going to stop printing. And of course, legal and financial in all ways.
So, if you don’t have any of those customers, now might be a good time to start. Pick one of those verticals, the one that you have the most knowledge in or you know people in. And start doing your investigations and see if you can come up with our favorite good, better, best packages to talk to any of these people. Jamie, thoughts?
[0:47:37] JM: No, I agree with all that. I mean, Philadelphia is big right now. We got the World Cup. We got games here. We have like a big America 250th anniversary. There’s all kinds of print related to that. The World Cup games and the baseball. Can’t remember what the name of it is, but in the middle of the year.
[0:47:53] DC: The FIFA thing?
[0:47:53] JM: Yeah, everything. There’s all kinds of stuff related that. FIFA is going to be here. So, there’s a lot of stuff with that. People I know, everybody here is trying to get a hold of some of that print. Hospitals are huge. There’s always wayfinding signage that needs to get done or something. There’s always some kind of construction going on there. So, they need to reroute you around somewhere else. We do amazing amount of that stuff that always is changing. Yeah, pick one of those topics that Deborah just listed, become an expert at it and look for those customers. Definitely, you can do more than one of those. And there’s definitely work there to be had.
[0:48:27] DC: Yeah. Will, how do you feel about this? And I’m asking you specifically because you’re Mr. let me investigate everybody who’s selling print around me. If you notice that there’s a printer close enough to you that you would call them competition, and their prices are high because they have humans where you don’t or for whatever reason, is this the time to go after their customers? Don’t get mad at me printers. I’m just asking a question. I mean, seems like it’s poaching time.
[0:48:58] WC: I actually think I’m the opposite. I don’t have salespeople. I don’t have anyone that knocks on doors. I don’t have outward marketing. We do even very little social media at this point really just to have a presence more than trying to acquire business. Our business model is based around people coming to us and finding us. I have billboards around town. If one of your clients sees my shit, and they come to me, that’s not my problem.
[0:49:24] DC: I saw one on the highway, by the way, a digital billboard. I was like, “What?”
[0:49:28] WC: Yeah.
[0:49:29] DC: It was like, “Will’s on the highway?”
[0:49:31] WC: I got them all over town. But I’m very, very heavy back into SEO and making that our primary focus, where if someone’s looking for it, if someone needs my services, I am going to be front and center. That’s where I’m at.
[0:49:43] DC: Okay. But let me ask you this. I’m just going to use an example of a 100 business cards, okay? If somebody in Tampa is offering a 100 business cards for $150, and you know that, do you then go out with all of your pull marketing, right? When you pull people to you, do you go out and say we’re 125? Because you know that that is going to be the least expensive price in the area?
[0:50:09] WC: I mean, those numbers are crazy, but you said you’re not good at math.
[0:50:12] DC: Is that cheap for business cards?
[0:50:14] WC: $125 for 100 business cards. Metal ones that I carry are like that. That’s like my expensive.
[0:50:19] DC: Oh, that’s expensive?
[0:50:20] WC: Yeah, that’s crazy.
[0:50:22] DC: Okay. I’m sorry. I don’t pay for a print.
[0:50:25] WC: She doesn’t pay for business cards. She gets hers for free.
[0:50:28] DC: I get mine from Duplo, because they love me. I couldn’t afford my own business cards, by the way. They’re so fancy.
[0:50:35] JM: Yes, they are very nice.
[0:50:36] WC: They are very fancy. You have very nice business cards, Deborah. I mean, look, it’s feast or famine. I’ve never really looked too much at my competition because I know that I do business a different way. But that’s not to say that if you’re in a market and you’ve got a guy down the street, and you look at his pricing and you pay attention, and you can be a little bit lower than what they’re selling, then yes, use that as a marketing tool.
It’s absolutely fair game. It’s not a game that I play to a degree, right? I’m competing more with the online printers than I am with my other local print shops. That’s just how my dynamic has been built. But if you’re local, straight local, you’re competing with your local. You got to know what they’re doing. You got to know what your competition is doing. You got to know where your price margins are. And you got to be able to add or do value-added, right? If you’re not going to be lower in price, you have to add something with more value.
[0:51:26] DC: Yeah. Jamie?
[0:51:28] JM: Agree to all that. But yeah, I mean we kind of know what our competition is like around here, what they do. I don’t know if we really know their pricing and all that, but we just try and make sure that we do what we do for a fair price. We get it done. We say what we’re going to do. And we try and value add. We’re going to take care of you every step of the way. And if it requires somebody running out for two hour drive to go take something for you to get it done, we’ll get it done for you. But yeah, it’s not like I don’t think there’s a price list somewhere that everybody has that you can find. You basically have to –
[0:51:58] WC: Mine.
[0:51:58] JM: Bigger printers. Most of it’s quoting. They’re not going to have their – yeah. Besides Will, Will’s prices are right there right up front. But yeah, our prices, you have to call and get an estimate, whether it’s one of the CSRs or salespeople. Our customers that already have a portal, they already know their prices. They’re locked in for their stationary business cards and brochures. They order all the time. They already know where that is, but they’re the only people that can go in and see their pricing.
[0:52:23] DC: Okay. Well, you can ask somebody to go put a quote in.
[0:52:28] JM: You can ask somebody to go make a quote.
[0:52:31] DC: I’m just saying, look, I don’t want to come across as being sneaky or underhanded. But in the who’s going to survive, the answer is me. I’m going to survive. So, if it all comes tumbling down, or if they’re just going to shop on price, which I believe a lot of people are just going to shop on price, whether they’re professional buyers or consumers. At this point now, the price, it used to be speed-to-market, right? That was the most important thing. I think that that is shifting very quickly to how much is it and how fast can I get it, where it’s not how fast can I get it and how much does it cost.
And with that being said, if you have some idea of the pricing in your area, now’s the time to go look at those social media posts and see if anyone’s talking about customers. I know this is horrible, but see if people are talking about customers. See the type of work that they’re doing. And if you have better prices, now might be a good time to reach out for new business. That’s all I’m saying. You never know. And it’s all about making sure that your business stays around. And everybody has to kind of realize we’re getting into that cage match. Territory.
[0:53:50] WC: Deborah, one thing I do want to touch on.
[0:53:53] DC: Uh-oh, I’m in trouble.
[0:53:54] WC: No, no, no. You’re fine. There was something I want to touch on from before with the verticals. We mentioned this in our presentation at ISA about verticals and trying to find where your vertical is, and all of those that you listed, and how you can increase revenue or find new business. And I’ve kind of created this web around verticals. And that you look at who are your biggest clients. So who are you servicing the best? Those are your biggest clients because they’re your best clients. You do well for them. They spend a lot of money with you. They’re happy with you.
And what type of business are they? What type of work are you doing for them? And then how can you find other clients that are in that same vertical? But then, also, what other products or services does that client need that you are not currently fulfilling? And then looking at, “Well, how can I leverage relationships with vendors that I can broker or outsource that work so that I can service that client for that thing that they need that I’m not already fulfilling?” And then if you can’t fulfill that thing, look at buying more equipment to do that.
[0:54:59] DC: Now?
[0:55:01] WC: Necessarily not now. Depending on what it is and depending on what opportunity is. If you go to that client, you say, “Hey, I can do this thing for you, and I can do it for this much. Will you move that business to me?” And in order to do that, you have to buy a piece of equipment and they’ll sign a contract with you. Absolutely buy that equipment. But be strategic.
Look at how you can grow and how you can move into those verticals to where it is profitable. Don’t just be willy-nilly, “Ah, I’m going to start offering labels on medication bottles.” No. Look at your clients. Look at who you’re already servicing well, and then trickle that down into new revenue streams.
[0:55:38] DC: Yeah, makes sense. Jamie, final words.
[0:55:42] JM: You said something about buying equipment now, but it might be a good place to start looking at it soon because equipment guys are going to want to sell equipment –
[0:55:50] WC: They’re going to make deals.
[0:55:51] JM: There might be some deals coming up this summer.
[0:55:54] DC: I think I saw something today about tariffs. 25% tariffs might be back. I’m not sure. I thought they were illegal.
[0:56:03] WC: Depending on which country.
[0:56:04] DC: Yeah. Okay. Well, all right, gentlemen.
[0:56:08] JM: I think this was good.
[0:56:09] DC: This was a good conversation. And we just wanted to speak about this topic because we’ve all lived through the pandemic. We know we should be pretty nimble. We’ve all pivoted, right? Remember the word pivot was like the word of the year, like two years.
[0:56:28] WC: Yeah. Be nimble.
[0:56:29] DC: Pivot. Pivot. Pivot. Well, you’re always nimble because you’re the gazelle, so you’re always jumping around. You’re very nimble. But we just wanted to have a conversation that is a little protective, a little preemptive, and a little reactive in the same time, and hopefully give you stuff to think about and start working on. I’m so thrilled that Will’s going to go check his inventory. I feel like my work is done here.
And just want to thank you, gentlemen, for your time and your thought leadership. And thanks to everybody who listened to the podcast. You can find and connect with Will and Jamie through links in the show notes. Same thing with everything with Print Media Centr. All of our podcasts also play on printfm.com. So, make sure you check that out as well. The world’s first 24/7/365 internet radio station dedicated to print and graphic communications. Thanks, everybody. And until next time, print long and prosper.
Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars, and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com. We’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcasts. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
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