[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:05] DC: It takes the right skills and the right innovation to design and manage meaningful print marketing solutions. Welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse, where we explore all facets of print and marketing that create stellar communications and sales opportunities for business success. I’m your host, Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse. Thanks for tuning in. Listen long and prosper.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:32] DC: Hey everybody, welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador. And today we have a special guest. His name is Warren Werbitt. You probably have heard of him. He has spent more than three decades in the graphic communications industry. He built and operated a printing company that grew to 120 employees and 18 million in annual sales, experiencing the highs, lows, and hard decisions that come with ownership.
Today, he is the founder of The Print Whisperer, advising printing company owners and managers on profitability, operations, sales, equipment investments, and business transitions. He is also the author of Printing’s Alive: A Tale of Ink, Innovation, and Industry Wisdom, and host of the Printing’s Alive podcast, where he speaks with printers and industry leaders about the realities of running and growing a print business. Welcome back to the Printerverse, Warren.
[0:01:37] WW: Hey, thanks, Deb, for having me. It’s nice to be a guest and not a host. So thank you again.
[0:01:43] DC: I know. It’s much more relaxing, right, when you’re a guest. So tell everybody more about your consulting business and how you are helping printers out there.
[0:01:53] WW: So it’s pretty simple. I just decided when my business closed, that’s a whole other story for another time, I didn’t want to get back in and rebuild and recapitalize and all that other stuff. I just thought, “Oh my, I’ve done so much. I’ve been through so many good times, so many really miserable times, like right up to even having to file and work way through that. The build-out of everything that we did in the company from digital to up to 56-inch offset, flexo, large format. Everyone says one-stop shop today. I think we coined that phrase a long time ago. I don’t want to date myself with decades, but I’ve always seen and done things a little differently.
And I just thought of after, since I didn’t know what to do, and it all was around that bad time of COVID, and I like to help people, that I just want to help people. And if I could go into somebody’s shop plant and see something and help them get that much farther ahead, I’m thrilled. I operate in that I don’t have contracts because as a print owner, nothing made me crazier than having to sign a contract that you can cancel anyways at any time without a penalty. So go in with a handshake. I mean, sign a little cheat to make it a little professional, but go in. And if someone needs me for a day, a week, a month or five months or a year, that’s fine. I act as a consultant going in to help owners with their plans or issues if they have, or just to do a little analysis and see where there could be some improvement.
I’m not attached to anything, so it makes it easier. I think I said just before, I’m probably one of the only actual former print owners of a facility out there thinking strictly on behalf of the printer. I think I do things a little uniquely in that I don’t care for the vendors. I like all the people that work for the vendors, but they are corporations and the corporations need the printers. The printers don’t need the corporations. We have more choice to choose from. They have less choice to sell. So I just want to make sure that people know who they are, what they are, that it’s their business. It’s their money.
And I’ve acted on bigger assignments. And then I have as little as an owner hiring me for five hours just to have me in the phone book so that they can call me anytime because a lot of owners don’t have confidants or partners or belong to peer groups or anywhere to talk to. So I just thought, “Hey, I could just be a sounding board for people.”
And then when people need certain things, they save a lot of time because I’m not going to bring anyone to the table, A, that’s not going to take care of them, that isn’t vetted, that doesn’t have what it takes. And I’m trying to teach people to think about their actual time that they spend on things and the value or the cost of that time. Because usually when people don’t lay out cash, they don’t add up anything for time.
[0:04:51] DC: Yeah. No, that’s a great point. Yeah.
[0:04:54] WW: And I just want to be simple and easy. I’m not looking to complicate anybody’s lives because life is complicated enough.
[0:05:01] DC: Yeah. Okay. So you need a new t-shirt, “I’m Warren. I’m simple and easy.”
[0:05:06] WW: Yeah.
[0:05:07] DC: That would go over very well. All right. If you can generalize in the best way possible, when a printer calls you for help, what do they usually believe their problem is? And what do you typically discover the real problem is?
[0:05:25] WW: People’s problems could be anything from their production flow, to the equipment they have or what they bought, to the processes that they do. Most of the time, what I like to do is I like to tell people I want to come in for a day, and I want to spend it, and I want to talk to everyone, and I want to move around the shop, and I want to look. And I don’t really want to do much else. Because when I talk to everyone, depending on the size of the shop, of course, I get the good, the bad, the ugly, or I get the truth, I get reality, and I get the wish.
But at the end of talking to all the right people, you could pull out what the truth is of the business. Are they good? The culture there. Are people interested? Are there certain people that take it down because they don’t pull their weight? A good part of the time, it has to do a lot with people. People run the operation. People run the machines. People create and run the processes. So it doesn’t mean that the people are bad. It could just simply mean they have someone in place who doesn’t know better and is only doing what they know. And a lot of owners don’t know to ask, say, or offer up some help, right? Because you don’t know what you don’t know at any level.
[0:06:40] DC: Yeah. I mean, that is actually a great point. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it is the phrase, right? But the truth is that the owner should know what’s broken. I mean, there are plenty of tools to see about productivity and waste and things of that manner. So if you’re not using a tool, is there a human way of doing this besides asking people? Because I would assume that people would not admit to maybe having some problems or needing some help in all cases?
[0:07:13] WW: There’s a lot of tools because the whole world now is about data. So if you’ve got all the latest and greatest in equipment or software, it’s all there. But if you roll it back a little to some old school days, you take out the pad and paper, you take some notes when you’re going around.
How did I find in my business a lot of the errors, the mistakes, the bleeding? Unfortunately, it took me to the point where it was 2008, the financial crisis happened. I did an $8 million expansion, put in a 56-inch press, blah, blah, blah. Never used my line of credit. 18 months later, the bank’s all over me. I’m freaking out because now I’ve used my $2 million line of credit. It was 18 months putting in a new machine, people not wanting to buy new stuff, people looking to save money on the old stuff is a problem.
And then when we get to make some tough decisions, all of a sudden, I’m sitting there and I’m going through the entire place with a comb. And I’m seeing where all the little leaks are in the cement wall that I didn’t know before because I was making money elsewhere, I didn’t really care.
And when the bank wants to pull the plug on you and you’re trying to find every scrap that you have to survive, that’s when you go and you see everything. That’s when you start to manage your waste. That’s when you start to look at the actual time it takes. That’s when you want people to write down the time it takes them to do a job, do a setup.
There’s still a lot of rudimentary stuff that we need to do that doesn’t have to be machine done. If we talk about machines, recently I was at Dairy Queen, and there’s two girls working behind the cash, students. I go to pay for my ice cream. It was $4.90 and they gave me back $5.10, right? They gave me back what the cash register said. The owner of the Dairy Queen was standing right behind them and I said to them, I said, “Ladies, are you okay if I want to teach you something and just tell you something how to do better, make more money?” And they were like, “Yeah, sure.” And I said, “Okay. I said, so when you’re giving change, don’t give a 5 and a 10. Only 10 cents goes in the jar. Give me back two twos and a one and you’re getting a buck 10.”
[0:09:22] DC: Hold on, because you’re saying in Canada you have $2 of things?
[0:09:26] WW: Toonies, loonies, $1 bills, $2 bills, whatever.
[0:09:29] DC: Okay, sorry. Me and the rest of the people in North America are like, “What the hell are you talking about?”
[0:09:33] WW: Give me back five $1 bills and 10 cents, and I’m going to take the one and I’m going to give it to you because you’re a young student working in Dairy Queen. I said, “But the other way. You didn’t give me the option, and I’m not asking, and I’m leaving.” The two girls looked at each other like, “Oh my God, we have to tell everyone.” And the owner was giving me thumbs up. Right? I go back to what I was saying about we don’t need all these machines out there to give us information. You can look and you can see certain things. Right?
[0:10:03] DC: Right. But I just have to say the machine did give them information. It’s just that they returned it exactly as it said, because the machine didn’t say to them, “You could give them a five dollar, whatever,” or a loonie toonie, whatever you’re calling those things.
[0:10:19] WW: Correct. Maybe if there was a screen and it was AI-enabled, it would have said, “Give him back five ones and 10 cents. He will then give you back whatever.” Right? So same thing in our businesses. People are looking for easy ways to see things like things. I think a lot of times people don’t want to hear the truth. It’s tough. Once you’ve been through it and you’ve been through the wringer and you’ve been dragged across the floor, for me, it’s really just about pointing things out and try to save someone else time, energy, money, and potentially their business.
[0:10:52] DC: Yeah.
[0:10:53] WW: And I won’t do what I don’t know. If I don’t know something, I tell or I bring in the right person because no one person knows it all.
[0:11:00] DC: Yeah, totally true. I think you were around for the print chat days on Twitter. Did you used to come and participate? I’m pretty sure. So you might remember I used to ask a pick one question and I was very serious. You could only pick one. So I’m going to ask you a pick one question to basically put Warren’s brain into a tizzy. Because how do you pick one, Warren?
So here we go. If you were advising a startup printing company today and had to pick one path for them, which would it be? Specialize in one area, build enough capabilities to say yes to almost any job, or create a technology-first operation designed to produce work for the print networks?
[0:11:47] WW: Oh, those are good. So the first thing I would say is how much money do you have to start this new business? Because depending on how much money you have, you will only be able to do certain things and go so far. If you want to build niches, you need to have more money because you have to work at things no one else is. And it could be equipment. It could be how you do things, how you’re going to put it out, how you’re going to market, how you’re going to sell it, right?
If someone’s getting into a new print business, I want to know why. I want to understand what they’re thinking first. Maybe what they’re thinking is stuff that we haven’t thought about because we’re so wrapped up in what we do. And there’s always a new idea that comes out there. And I want to know what they want to do, how they want to do it, and how they want to reach the customer. If they can’t answer those three questions or they don’t want help answering those three questions, I can’t do anything or decide anything. I just think more people today, it’s about what you want to do and how you want to do it and how much money do you have.
[0:12:53] DC: Okay. Those are all fair parameters. Those are all fair. Let’s say that was all worked out and they could do all three, any of those options, which is the one that you would suggest is the best for the future of their business?
[0:13:10] WW: If they can answer all the questions and fill in the blanks, I like the idea of specialized niche.
[0:13:15] DC: Really? Interesting. Discuss.
[0:13:19] WW: Again, what are they thinking? What is the niche, right? When I had my business, we were doing everything for anyone. What set us apart was when I put in that 56-inch, I guess I should say Koenig-Bauer because they’re not KBA anymore. When I put in what is now Koenig & Bauer, but it was KBA back then, a 142 six-color UV 400-ech triers raised off the [inaudible 0:13:42]. The videos on my YouTube channel. It’s wicked. I was out to go do some oversized print. And then another printer put a big press in as well without the UV. So now he’s able to charge less than me on the same thing because he doesn’t have that extra $2 million in the press to figure out.
But with a friend who was in the poster business, we ended up becoming one of the largest offset canvas producers, printed canvas producers. And all of their goods were going into all the big box stores on a three-week changeover of new designs, new frames. He would supply me containers of canvas. I would print day and night. I would get $700 an hour for my machine, 24 hours a day. I would charge $600 for a smashed blanket when I was using a company out west for $120 to reface the blankets to save environment sustainability as well. We were cooking. So if you could find that, where it’s something that not many people do, then you have a great opportunity. But you have to know what you’re doing. You just can’t go into it blind.
[BREAK]
[0:14:48] DC: Get ready to turn up the volume on print. PrintFM is a global internet radio station dedicated exclusively to print and graphic communications, accessible around the clock in every time zone. No more searching across channels and apps. PrintFM brings relevant topical programming from Print Media Centr, Girls Who Print, and an array of industry contributors who bring their own perspectives, guests, and conversations to the mix. PrintFM also broadcasts from industry events, with live shows being scheduled throughout the year. Visit printfm.com to explore our daily programming, event schedules, and opportunities to share your content or sponsor our shows. Expert discussions, real-world insight, and industry voices are just a click away. Listen long and prosper.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:15:48] DC: You have to know what you’re doing. You have to know how to message on what you’re doing. You have to know how to message to the right people because that specialty is not right for anybody. But you’re right. If you hit the right pocket of people, you have something that others can’t do.
So just to answer my own question, because I love doing that too sometimes, I, as a recovering print customer, would be like, “I’m not talking to these people anymore.” The professional print buyers are almost gone. People are giving me files from who the hell knows where.
[0:16:23] WW: AI?
[0:16:25] DC: Yeah, I’m just saying, I will be on the receiving end of orders. And I will just execute to the best of my ability with the least amount of people possible and go on with my life and leave the customer acquisition to Mr. Google and all the millions of dollars that are pumped into that. So that when you say I need a postcard, the same five networks come up the whole time if you need a postcard.
[0:16:55] WW: Right. Again, it depends what you want to do, right? I was not big into doing – we did everything, but I wasn’t big into business cards. I wasn’t into small stuff. Although somebody would call a customer and say, “How much for a thousand business cards?” And I would say $275.” And they go, “Well, at the time, we can get it online for 70.” I go, “Yeah. But if you’re not happy, you can’t scream at anybody.”
[0:17:17] DC: Exactly.
[0:17:17] WW: For $275, you could scream at me. Right?
[0:17:20] DC: Yeah. Well, a couple of times, people in my family are like, “I need some business cards.” And I quoted them. And they’re like, “What? I can get them for $10 on Vista.” I’m like, “Enjoy yourself. Go right ahead.” But then I don’t want to hear about it because it’s a different process. You get what you get for $10. And that’s fine for some people. You want to go through and pull out 25 cards that are trimmed incorrectly. I mean, that was always my problem with them, or something got scratched or something. Fine. For $10, you still got 75 business cards. Take it and run.
[0:17:53] WW: Yeah. First of all, I never did a gang-run in my life. I mean, I know what it is, but we work quality. So if you wanted a thousand business cards, we would do it on the small press. We’d do PMS colors. Digital brought on CMYK is just about good for everybody. Even the big companies that had brands then converted in what they would accept because it was that much cheaper than putting a fifth, sixth color on. The big good companies still add all those colors because they want what they want.
I actually just learned something the other day about color. And I was talking to someone about these big companies, how some of them get crazy with their Delta II and their Delta III and it goes too far off. And I kind of just chuckled because I remember we were doing something for Smirnoff. They send down someone from wherever. They pay them $4,000 to come check a little red dot. We were GMI certified, Pantone certified, and G7 certified. We could have done that and given them the printout. But I understand.
Anyway, then the person explained to me about one company copied another company’s product. And then when they went before a judge, it got to the point where the judge was looking at the color and saying to the brand owner, “You talk about the brand being in one area and the color being consistent, but you’re up to a Delta seven. That’s way too far.” And they lost the case. So I just learned that.
So there is a reason for some of the big companies doing what they do and being very critical and picky on their color. But for the most part, people are just eye-pleasing. The Vista prints are eye-pleasing. Any of those shops are all eye-pleasing. And if you’re not happy, too bad. You’re not happy.
[0:19:33] DC: Yeah. I mean, it’s true. Okay. I don’t think there’s any corner of the print-averse that there isn’t a discussion about workflow and automation happening, which is great. I love workflow and automation. But here’s my question to you, Warren. Is automation killing the craft of printing and human business relationships?
[0:19:57] WW: I think automation can kill all crafts in any industry, anything that people do. If you’re a printer, if you’re a jeweler, whatever it is, right? I just think we have to be smart with it and we have to see what it can do for what we’re doing and not change what we’re doing to fit it in. Because if we’re changing what we’re doing to fit it in, we’re changing what we originally had that might not be working either. The automation, we have no choice, right?
Okay. The word craft. Yeah, our whole industry is craftless just about in my opinion from the days of mixing ink on the table and even in the silk-screening days of doing your different screens. The other day, you’re going to love this. The other day I went to go move a dresser, and behind the dresser, I had my original films from my first company marked up on those yellow sheets with the red Rubylith tape, separating the colors before they went to be printed on whatever the little press was, right?
If I say to someone, “Hey, do you know anyone who has strippers working for them still?” I get a look because they think I’m thinking about something completely else because no one’s thinking of strippers in the printing business anymore. Might not be a great analogy, but that’s the looks that I get from people. So we’ve lost a lot of that stuff, right? Color adjustments with the machine might be quicker, but I still think you need an eye, right?
[BREAK]
[0:21:21] DC: Leadership isn’t a title, it’s a journey. And Girls Who Print membership supports you at every step, with resources to grow your skills, boost your confidence, and expand your professional network. Through our member-exclusive programs, you’ll tap into industry expertise, connect with mentors and peers, and access opportunities that open doors you didn’t even know existed. Whether you want to lead a team, launch a business, or explore new possibilities in print, we are here to help you do it with community, not competition. Join Girls Who Print today and take the lead in your career. To learn more about our comprehensive membership program, visit girlswhoprint.org. Empower long and prosper.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:22:12] DC: The mission now is in and out as fast as possible for the highest margin possible, which usually that means the least amount of humans involved in the process. That means that there might not be somebody watching that press. There might not be somebody who’s like, “You know, if we just pumped up the blue a little, this would look so much better.” Because to your point, sellable print is where we’re at in most cases. There are always cases where like someone like me, if I’m working in an advertising agency, dude, if you’re talking to me about selling sellable print, I’m not talking to you unless I don’t honestly care about it.
We used to think about direct mail as whatever. People are going to throw it out anyhow. It doesn’t have to last a long time. If we’re going to save money, that’s where we’re going to save it on the paper and everything else there. Because you could buy glossy paper, throw an aqueous coating over it, and now it’s no longer glossy paper.
[0:23:20] WW: When you were working in the agency and you were buying print, you were specking paper by name.
[0:23:25] DC: Hell yes.
[0:23:27] WW: Today, some of the bigger companies and contractual and whatnot are using – to me the only paper to buy at the time was we only bought Sappi pretty much. We bought some shit stuff for some of the other low-end customers, but Sappi ran better through the press. If the press ran faster, I’m making up money there. The other thing is the paper was white. Customer go spends all this money on a beautiful design and images who wants a yellowish paper because it’s 10 cents a pound cheaper.
So it’s hard to figure out what people’s real wants are. You have to go deep within the company. Because if you’re going to quote what they want, you have to make sure what they’re getting quoted from somewhere else, they’re asking for the same thing. Right? Because I’ve seen where – and I’ve used this one before because it’s actually the best example. I had someone ask me to quote elevator doors or elevator wraps.
[0:24:15] DC: Oh, I love those so much. I’m obsessed with them.
[0:24:19] WW: Right? I think we quoted like maybe 64 elevator wraps in a mall or something, or office building, whatever it was. And I submit the quote and I call to follow up. That’s another thing. A lot of salespeople don’t even call to follow up on the quotes that they sent out. That’s another conversation. Anyways, I call to follow up and she says to me, “Oh, you’re double the price.” And I’m thinking, “No, I’m not. I know what I’m doing. No, I’m not.” I said, “Do me a favor. Cross out the price, even though you just told me I’m double, let’s make it good. Send me the specs so I could please read it. And I’ll call you back right away and I’ll tell you maybe the guy wants to do it for that. That’s fine.”
She sends me the specs. I have a look at it. And right away I see why I’m double because I know better. I quoted a matte lamination on the elevator wraps, so that when the maintenance comes around at night to clean the elevators, they’re not using a solvent that takes off the whole wrap and then they got to go redo it again. So I said to her, “Yeah, they’re cheaper right now. But by tomorrow morning, when the maintenance guy comes by, you’re going to wonder where all the images are on the elevator. And you’re going to have to call back that person and not only pay them what you paid, but now pay them double the price for the lamination.” So all of those little experiences in life just lead me to know and to suggest to other people, “You need to ask some qualifying questions.” Right? We are guilty of when we get a car or a lease agreement for our car, we go to the bottom line because we know how much money we have in our pocket. And then we go backwards.
[0:25:53] DC: Right. No, you’re absolutely right.
[0:25:54] WW: It’s probably better to start at the top and see line by line so you could ask a question. So at the bottom, you’re like, “Oh, yeah. No, no, that totally makes sense.” And I want to deal with that person because they were thorough.
[0:26:07] DC: Yeah. No, definitely. I just want to go back for a second and tell you why I got so excited about elevator wraps, just in case anyone out there is like, “What the hell?” I like the elevator reveals. When the doors close, it’s a picture of Superman. And on both sides, he’s like holding his suit. And then as the doors open in the back of the elevator is like him standing there because he went from Clark Kent to Superman. So when you said elevator wraps, I thought of the reveals.
But you touched upon the second part of that question, which is human business relationships. Okay. In the proposed scenario that, by the way, I am not opposed to, I go online, I order my elevator wrap with my things. Maybe there’s some AI in there saying, “Hold on a second.” Or it only allows me to get the substrate that can be cleaned or that is approved, like if it’s going to be on the floor or something, it’s only going to give me those as options. So in that scenario, there is no discussion unless somebody from the company wants to call and clarify that order. I’m just saying.
[0:27:19] WW: Nobody calls from the company for all those online companies.
[0:27:22] DC: Sometimes they do. It depends upon what’s in the shopping carts.
[0:27:26] WW: In general, when I did my book and I went – I mean, I ended up going to somebody local. I wasn’t going to print overseas. But I went out to a bunch of companies to get quotes to the ones that were online because I wasn’t going to waste a salesperson’s time. So I was trying to do some research. And maybe one person out of nine – again, I went to nine because it was online and it didn’t matter and I wouldn’t waste the company’s money because I wouldn’t want anyone to waste my time. But out of the nine, one reached out to say, “Hey.” And I don’t know why the other nine don’t have an automatic something. Not even automatic. Put a person on it so that you have that reach because the person who’s calling back to just follow up or ask questions, the first question I want to know – I want to know, A, are you an individual or a company? And if you’re a company, what other print do you have? Why not try to get the most out of the people calling you instead of trying to keep running around to find new business?
[0:28:24] DC: Right. Well, in this scenario, they’re just going through your online system, again, to not have to pay a salesperson to speak to people. I mean, that’s what the ultimate goal is here, right?
[0:28:36] WW: I was looking at a company the other day, PlanProphet.
[0:28:40] DC: Oh, I like them.
[0:28:41] WW: Right? And I didn’t really know much about them. So I was learning. And A, they’re not an MIS system. They’re probably the only people doing what they do with what they offer. And there was one part of it that I loved, loved, loved. And that was if you’re getting orders from a customer on a regular basis and the orders slow up or stop, the system sends you a trigger. And wow. Because you know what? I’ve seen it. I’ve lived it. You get, you get, you get. You don’t realize when you don’t get. And when you don’t get, it’s because they’re going somewhere else usually. And if you don’t act quickly – for PlanProphet to have that trigger mechanism in, oh my God, everyone should be scouring their invoices and their customers. And they should be knowing their patterns. Right?
We used to go out with our customers and we had a seasonal list of who we knew was busy and what season. We knew who was busy all year. Technically, there was no reason for us to be quiet because we had to go find the people that were busy in those seasons when the others weren’t. I didn’t accept. Well, everyone’s quiet. Fuck that. I don’t buy. Listen, your parents never wanted to hear what you told them your friends were doing. I don’t want to hear from my salespeople what other salespeople are telling them.
[0:29:59] DC: Right. If Warren jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do that too? I mean, I grew up just hearing that.
[0:30:04] WW: Right. Exactly. As long as you live under my roof, you’ll live by my rules.
[0:30:07] DC: Yeah, exactly.
[0:30:10] WW: Yeah. I said that to my kids and they looked at me and they’re like, “What are you talking about?”
[0:30:13] DC: The Gen-Xers, I mean, we’re our own little breed of people. I think we’re pretty funny, but the rest of the world obviously cannot deal with us.
[BREAK]
[0:30:24] DC: Like what you hear? Leave us a comment, click a few stars, share this episode, and please subscribe to the show. Are you interested in being the guest and sharing your information with our active and growing global audience? Podcasts are trending as a potent direct marketing and educational channel for brands and businesses who want to provide portable content for customers and consumers. Visit printmediacentr.com, click on podcasts, and request a partner package today. Share long and prosper.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:30:59] WW: Oh, so you know what? You mentioned Gen-X. So it’s not about Gen-X, but I want to just talk about the youth for a moment. I’m on a youth kick lately. I just had Tara Seth and Mackenzie Griffin on my podcast. Two young ladies who graduated from University – Ferris State. They’re great. And they have a podcast called Talk More Print. So how exciting.
When I heard the podcast, first thing I did was I reached out to them and I said, “Hey, you want to come on my podcast?” So they were kind enough to come on and we started talking. And then they were talking about their experience of leaving university and then going out to look for work and coming across print owners who were offering them up internships, but not to pay them. And I just lost my shit on the podcast. Like, “What the fuck? Who does that? Who offers that?” We’re not doing our industry justice by acting like that. And then, funny enough, I saw a clip the other day on my feed, not print-related, Undercover Boss.
[0:31:58] DC: Oh, I love that show.
[0:31:59] WW: Okay. So this one was the CEO of Hooters, just so happens, was working undercover in one of the restaurants, which I’ve never been to. Okay, maybe twice.
[0:32:10] DC: Allegedly.
[0:32:11] WW: And he’s working with the manager who’s in charge and he have all the ladies working and he doesn’t like what he’s seeing. He doesn’t like what he’s hearing. He doesn’t like how it’s all going down. Calls him into his office at the end of the show and he’s telling him about what he saw, what he doesn’t like. The employee is pushing back. You have to do things a certain way. And he’s going on and on and on.
And this is the part that killed me. The CEO looks at him and says, “I have two daughters and I would be concerned if they were working under you.” And you saw the guy’s face just stop. You saw the eyeballs start to turn and he started to think and realize stuff. And the CEO suggested that he go back right away and apologize to everyone and that they would work from there to do whatever.
I like the fact that he didn’t toss him. I like the fact that he’s helping him learn and teach something. Right? To all the people that we’re bringing into our industry, just ask yourself if you would treat your children that way or if you would want anyone else to treat your children that way. And if it’s no, then God damn it, don’t do that.
[0:33:19] DC: Yeah. It’s so interesting. It’s like, we want young people in the industry. And then they come in the industry and it’s like, “Okay, what do I do? Here’s how we do everything around here.” Instead of what I would do is I would say, “Take your phone, go around and make little videos of everything you think is cool in this print shop.”
[0:33:39] WW: Oh my God.
[0:33:40] DC: Every single thing that you would want to tell your friends is going on in here. And I just want to know from your perspective what it is. It’s not going anywhere. It’s not doing anything. There’s no right and wrong answer. This is totally what you think is cool. And then market the hell out of whatever they think is the coolest thing.
[0:34:02] WW: First of all, they told me that when they go into some of the internships, even if they’re paid, the people are not prepared for them with a plan. So then they’re walking in circles. They don’t know what to do. They’re discouraged. Hopefully they meet someone in the shop who’s kind enough to take them under the wing and guide them a little. But that shouldn’t be happening if you’re bringing someone in. Work on this machine for four hours. Work on that one for four years. You don’t have to go crazy.
[0:34:27] DC: You could have a plan. Like, “Okay, this is the intern plan.” Week one, they spend a day with each of the department heads. Week two, we ask them which they have the most interest in, and then we send them there for a deeper dive into that. Week three, and so on and so forth.
[0:34:46] WW: I’ve had someone say to me, “We have a problem in our company. We can’t keep young people. Why?” I said, “Stop talking to them.” I said, “Because you say what you say in the beginning, and it’s nice, but you never go back.” You’re the owner. Whoever’s listening, everything in every company, big or small, starts at the top with the owner. If the owner doesn’t take ownership of it, does not promote it, does not follow it, does not get the people to follow it, the owner cannot expect anyone else to be doing it. It will not happen. Point blank.
[0:35:18] DC: So if people follow you online, which I know a lot of people do, they know that you are, I mean, beyond obsessed with phishing.
[0:35:26] WW: Yes.
[0:35:27] DC: So my question for you is, if you were a fish, which one would you be and why?
[0:35:34] WW: Oh, man, that’s a good question. Well, I would want to be a sport fish for sure because I won’t get eaten. So I would probably go with a giant trevally, which the best ones are in the Seychelles.
[0:35:46] DC: Is it like a sailfish? What does it look like?
[0:35:49] WW: No, it’s from the jack family, but it’s the king of the family. Jack’s permits for anyone in fishing who’s listening, hard fish to catch, generally catch them on a fly. That’s like the picture that no one could see behind me with the nice blue turquoise clear water, 30 degrees. And it’s all sight fishing and you’re looking and you’re working. Everyone thinks you go fishing and you sit in a boat and you just hold off. No, there’s fishing where you’re working, you’re hunting, you’re looking, you catch the fish, you take a beautiful picture and then you let them go.
[0:36:18] DC: So what about that fish though is you?
[0:36:21] WW: What a question that is. What about the fish is me? I just like nice water and nice things.
[0:36:28] DC: Okay, that’s fair. It’s an apex predator.
[0:36:33] WW: It’s a desired fish by the sportsman.
[0:36:35] DC: Okay, see? What does it look like? Is it a handsome fish?
[0:36:39] WW: Yeah, it could be nice and silver. It could be a little bit round. It could be fat. It could be thick. And you really have to go out of your way to get them. It’s not for the faint of heart.
[0:36:49] DC: It’s not for everybody.
[0:36:51] WW: The travel to go is it’s a 30-hour trip, not including time change. There’s also a bit of a cost to it. When I do those trips, they’re not really fishing trips, they’re journeys.
[0:37:03] DC: Yeah, of course.
[0:37:04] WW: Because we track everything that we do and the people we meet along the way of things that we see, where we’re going. Print has taken me around the world. Fishing has taken me around the world.
[0:37:14] DC: I used to work on the Costa Sunglass account. So I know all about the fishing and all about the polarized lenses. And we used to do like send people to Patagonia to go fishing. And I never got to go. I just had to deal with the sunglass catalog.
[0:37:29] WW: I got a few of those pairs. But I will tell you, they lost who they are when they sold to Luxottica.
[0:37:35] DC: Okay. Well, I was long gone by then.
[0:37:37] WW: Yeah. I’m just saying anybody’s listening because everything gets sold to Luxottica.
[0:37:41] DC: Our agency had their account. So that was that.
[0:37:43] WW: Yeah. Oh, no, a solid company. It was two guys down in Florida who created it, and kudos to them. And I wish I did it.
[0:37:49] DC: I think I still have a pair around here somewhere. But Warren, thank you so much for your time. I like that you picked that fish. It’s not a common fish. It’s a fish that you have to work for to engage with. You have to work for it to catch it. And it doesn’t get eaten by the other fish. So I really like that you picked that one.
[0:38:11] WW: Or by humans, because it’s a sport fish.
[0:38:13] DC: Oh, so nobody eats it at all, ever?
[0:38:17] WW: There might be some island people that eat it. But in general, it’s not.
[0:38:19] DC: Okay, but that’s totally fair. Okay.
[0:38:22] WW: I like stuff that doesn’t come so easy. Business is not easy. Sight fishing, fly fishing is not easy. But the rewards that come from both are tremendous. And I’ve learned planning your printing business and planning a fishing trip, it’s the same planning. What am I going to do? Where am I going? How am I going to get there? What do I need to be there when I’m there? It’s the same thought process and just changing up the elements.
[0:38:49] DC: I love it. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for everything you do for everybody in the industry. Thank you for helping the printers. We have that in common, I think, as our baseline. And yeah, for everybody who’s listening, everything you want to know about Warren and to connect with him is in the show notes. And until next time, print whisper along and prosper.
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