[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:02] NC: Does your printing need some passion?
[0:00:05] DD: Your design some dynamic dimension?
[0:00:08] DC: Are you stuck in a CMYK rut?
[0:00:11] DD: I’m David Drucker, founder and CEO of High Resolution Printing and Packaging.
[0:00:16] NT: I’m Noel Tocci, founder of TocciMade Bespoke Print Consulting.
[0:00:20] DC: And I’m Deborah Corn, the Intergalactic Ambassador to the Printerverse. Welcome to Making It With Print, the podcast that takes a deep dive into the conception, creation, and production of amazing printed products.
[0:00:34] DD: If you can dream it –
[0:00:35] NT: – you can make it.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:37] DC: Hey everybody, welcome to Podcasts From the Printerverse. This is Deborah Corn, your Intergalactic Ambassador. And we are here today with the Making It With Print Crew. I’m so excited to see you, gentlemen. David Drucker from highresolution printing and packaging. Hello, David Drucker.
[0:00:55] DD: Hey, how’s everybody doing?
[0:00:57] DC: Yay. And we have Noel Tocci from TocciMade. Buongiorno, Noel.
[0:01:04] NT: Buongiorno. How are you?
[0:01:06] DC: Good. Cómo está? Si. Si. I’m practicing my Italian because I’m having pasta later, so I’m all excited.
[0:01:15] NT: I love it.
[0:01:15] DC: All right, gentlemen. We have a little bit of a prickly topic today. It’s a bee in my bonnet, as they say. After recently spending time on a tradeshow floor, I was reminded how important print samples are and that there should be a strategy behind them. At least I think there should be. A sample is more than something to just look at or hand out, right? It’s a decision point. It’s a sales funnel. It has a job to do to attract your attention, to communicate the value of whatever it is that you’re looking at or wanting to invest your time or money in, and also to show how something is produced and executed.
So, not only in a tradeshow setting, but today I really wanted to talk about what makes a print sample work, what earns attention on a crowded show floor or out in the world, what makes you look at something. And then, how those samples move from inspiration to execution. David, let’s start with you. What should a print sample do to earn someone’s attention and, more important, hold it?
[0:02:37] DD: This is from my point of view, and what I would do is design. Design is really important, because if it’s not executed the right way, if the design does not attract you, then you just walk past it. You’re talking about a trade show booth, but let’s look at not only the brochure that they’re handing out, but the elements behind them, the signage that go, “Does it work together?”
Because when you’re doing that, you’re also honing in whoever’s seeing it to see what the entire design is looking like. And when you take the brochure and you go home, you’re going to remember the whole caterpillar of work that you saw there as compared to walking down and looking to the left and looking to the right and just seeing the same old same old.
For me, it’s got to be design is a focus point. If you’re not going to invest in that, then you’re just doing heysay, the same thing that everybody else is doing on that floor. I’ve been through this before, and I’ve looked at elements that clients are doing, and I said, “If you’re able to change just a couple of things here, then people are going to stop.”
The other end of it is the people who are selling whatever that product is. And what do they look like? What do their badges look like? Are they uniform together? That’s a very attractive point. That you could almost tell what the company is about without having to stop and look at it. You’ll know. And that creates a desire to stop.
[0:04:22] DC: Noel, what kind of print sample captures your attention and makes you keep it?
[0:04:26] NT: I love what David said, as always, and I’m going to take it further up the chain, right? A print sample that would capture my attention has to connect with me. And he’s right, the design. But where did the metrics come from? Where did the information come from? Because you’re seeking an audience you either know will love this or that you want. You have to have done your pre-work to find out what this sample is showing we can do. Who’s the audience? And hopefully, you’re at the right show. That audience is there. And what is not being done? Or what are they used to that they haven’t seen?
Way up the chain. And that influences the design. Maybe it’s metrics that drove that, and you’re making something. But then with whatever you make. And everybody’s going to – I believe wholeheartedly in haptics, right? And everybody thinks, “Well, that’s just color and texture, and interaction, and what your brain does.” That’s what it’s all about. It doesn’t have to be a big, expensive, fuzzy thing. Has to resonate visually. That would be your assets, right? It’s at the connection to the audience.
I like a sample, and I get really excited. And I make a lot of stuff when I do things. And I don’t do the shows per se, but I speak to a lot of people, and I make something in advance. If it’s 60 designers, I try to think about what they haven’t seen and what is doable. And maybe what they have seen, but with a deeper thought into how they think. Am I kind of going too deep? Do you know what I mean?
[0:06:09] DC: No. Yeah.
[0:06:11] NT: And then I apply the haptics, right? And then it’s, “Whoa, they’re gonna love this.” But I also think it’s very important to do something that isn’t in a vacuum. I used to yell at the paper companies, right? We’re going to do – you know, I’ve done one that’s $400,000 without paper. And I said, “This is amazing. This is one of the hardest things I ever did.” And someone, an executive at the company, said, “Well, everybody can do this.” And I said, “No, everybody can’t do this. They’re going to love it. They’re going to take it. They might take two. They’re going to put it on their shelf and go.” That’s their museum. It’s like the thousand books I have on my shelf I haven’t finished reading.
What you want is for them to take it and seek out, “Wow, I’m going to take A, B, and C from this. I’m ready for action.” And I think you need to think realistically about that. You’re not going to the Met Gala or something, and they’re going to take 400 pictures of you, and you want to look the best dressed. It’s not what it’s about. You want to connect, right? What’s going to connect?
And yeah, there’ll be some tricks in there. But I just think it’s really, really about knowing your audience and then thinking about it and going, “Well, this audience is going to love this.” And then someone might say, “Yeah. But wait.” But now you’re going to confuse them.
I think the more beautiful and not simple, I don’t like that word, but straightforward. Think of it as an arrow. That should be a straight to the heart. Somebody should walk by and go, “Whoa.” Look back and go, “I’ve seen that, but that’s different from what I’ve seen. That’s some mailer. But whoa, is that –” there you go. Connection. Sorry to take so much air out of the tire.
[0:07:53] DD: And it’s about inspiration as well. And sometimes it’s about educating the people who are designing that in there to go the step further. I’m just going to back up a little bit. I’ve been speaking to the communication classes at Baroque. Now, these are students, okay? And they’re going to get out of this class, and they’re going to work for a small agency or a design firm, and they’re going to be churning brochures and business cards and things like that. But it was my goal to introduce them to the high-end and to inspire them to say, “If you guys have an idea, share that idea. The client might not buy it, but at least they’re going to know that you’re thinking.”
And this is the same way of planting seeds with these corporations that are doing these events that there is another way. And if they’re used to the same old same old, they’re going to be the same old same old. I mean, what kind of inspiration are they giving the people who are walking by? It’s the same thing. We even see people within our own community who are throwing every kind of embellishment that they can on something, and it’s overproduced. It’s gaudy in what it is. But they think that because they use that technology that people are going to stop.
Now, that’s one of the things that I’ve seen in some of the tradeshows is that one piece really looks like another looks like another going down the line. And if I’m going to take that, and even if I have a conversation with the person, I’m going to throw that in my bag, I’m going to pull out the things that really, really spoke to me.
[0:09:34] NT: Correct? They’re doing an exercise. Those things live in a vacuum, and they’re not connecting. All they’ve done is show everything they can do. Look at my muscles. Okay, you’re going home alone. Sorry.
[BREAK]
[0:09:49] NT: Hi, I’m Noel Tocci, founder of Tocci Made. The printing industry has changed quite a bit, and I’ve learned a lot since I joined my brother’s small but mighty printing company in Newark, New Jersey, back in 1980. Over the years, while focusing primarily in the design and creative communities, I’ve come to understand and believe wholeheartedly that powerful, effective, and impactful print communication always lives at the intersection of great design, appropriate materials, and thoughtfully curated execution. Making beautiful work is a journey from concept, or idea, to desired result. Tocci Made is here to help you find your way and create work that is not only effective but something you can be proud of. Head to toccimade.com and find out how we can help.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:10:36] DC: So, I want to focus on the connection part of it because I think there’s two different levels here. Definitely, if you’re a print customer, you’re a designer, you’re a marketer, a thousand percent. The design is what is going to pull you in or something shiny in your eye. You’re going to look at it. But then if it’s too much, you’re going to look at it and say, “Oh my god, somebody vomited every foil that could possibly be done on this piece.” Maybe the takeaway for that person is, “Okay, if I ever wanted to use a ridiculous amount of embellishments, I can. It seems that I can.”
What I think is missing is the conversation that the industry’s been having about you can do all this different type of work either in one company or with one company’s equipment if you’re running your print shop that way. Or the industry speaks a lot about you can do hybrid things. You can do the covers on digital printing so that they could be customized. They could be different. But the inside pages, if you’re doing a book, and they’re not going to change, you can just print those offset and do hybrid things.
When I went to the trade show, the last one that I went to, there were the bigger booths with the larger exhibitors were in there, and they had a station for their digital printing, and they had a station for their wide format printing, and they had a station for a specialty thing, and they had a station for some apparel, and they had a station for some tchotchkes. But what they didn’t have was one place where one sample from the same fictitious company had a t-shirt, had a banner, had a something, so that you can see what your campaign would look like across all of those devices, across all of those communication mediums, whether it’s a shirt that’s die sublimation printed or with a transfer. Or it’s a hat that’s embroidered. Can that my logo blue be reproduced everywhere, you know? I think that to your point, Noel, the samples are usually look what we could do instead of look what you could do.
[0:12:59] NT: Or how you could use it as a tool for your brand. Because sometimes I do [inaudible 0:13:02].
[0:13:04] DC: Yes.
[0:13:04] NT: And it’s got this one piece. If someone spent a million dollars to get rebranded, it has to go across maybe 20 different substrates, different processes, everything else. Will that brand last? You’re right. The blue, the white, does it all work within a brand? And that’s what you’re trying to show that these tools can be a part of that brand and make it more special without having a brand that’s just all this crazy stuff, like a peacock, you know?
[0:13:31] DC: Right. Hey, we love peacocks. The thing is that what usually you see are the comparisons, like this is bad, and we’re good. Look, you can’t even tell. Even with the inkjet people, it’s a big thing. Inkjet versus. And it’s always versus offset. Let’s compare the two. But like I said, I would rather just see what the sample across everything. Okay, this is uncoated paper. This is coated paper.
And if the industry is talking to the printers and saying you need to be a one-stop shop, you need to be able to say yes to everybody, whether it’s yourself or with partners, which I wholeheartedly agree with, then show them how that could all work together. And guess what? If you don’t have, there are some manufacturers that don’t have all the equipment. Okay, who are your closest partners? And then show samples from them in the booth. There has to be a little more –
[0:14:29] NT: And there’s also no good and bad, and right and wrong in terms of processes and materials. What it is, is it’s a fit or it’s not. There’s a big difference. Do you know what I mean. One of those three processes doesn’t really fit. Do you know what I mean? Not that they’re bad processes. They don’t make sense for that.
[0:14:46] DC: It’s not that they’re bad processes, but they’re bad samples. And I am going to say bad samples because – yes. Because what I have come across time and time again, it’s not the marketing people producing the samples for the trade shows. It’s the engineers, it’s the product managers. And their focus tends to be more on is this operating at the speed we told everybody it could operate on? These are the samples on the high-performance speed. These are the samples on the medium speed. This is the sample that will allow you to have finishing attached to the press.
And this happened to me. I was doing a press check for a manufacturer, and they were all high-fiving each other about the speeds and all the different samples. And I was like, “Excuse me, why is the polar bear yellow?” And they’re like, “What are you talking about?” Because they don’t even look for stuff like that. That is what I see all over trade shows. Just samples that are not color corrected. I mean, I cannot even tell you how it drives me insane.
[0:15:53] NT: What do you think it is? They just want to put something out –
[0:15:57] DC: They’re not –
[0:15:59] NT: No connection, right?
[0:16:00] DD: Bad planning.
[0:16:01] DC: I don’t think that they’re really thinking about it more than we need to scan a badge and follow up with somebody with some generic email. Or maybe you had a better conversation, and you’re going to follow up with a phone call because you actually have the business card on people. But I don’t know. But it was very disheartening to me at this last show.
And to David’s point, sometimes those machines are like winging a prayer that they’ve got them to that show at all. Yeah, they’re just running any samples they can produce from them. But if you’re telling me this thing could also do packaging, then where is your freaking folding carton samples? Don’t just tell me it could do it. I got off on a little tangent there.
[0:16:45] NT: No, but you’re right. I mean, but if you have those various samples on those various substrates, there has to be some uniformity to them, right? Because if not, it’s mishmash.
[0:16:58] DD: Correct.
[0:16:59] DC: Don’t tell me I could use your press and your wide format device unless you show me that I can.
[0:17:05] DD: Yeah, it’s all about quality over quantity. Slow down. Rethink what you’re doing. When you’re talking to a big corporation and they’re not doing well, who do they let go first? Marketing. That’s the first group of people where that’s the most important group of people because they’re the thinkers. They’re the ones that are using their brain to help move everything forward. When you don’t do that, you have a bunch of white-collar people who are bouncing off of each other not coming up with the right ideas.
[0:17:37] NT: Or just bean counters, which –
[0:17:39] DC: Yeah, 100%. And the thing is that, Noel, everybody walks around the show, and that’s what they do. They go into a booth, they say, “Oh, that’s really interesting. Okay, let me take some samples.” Then they get home and they look at the samples and they’re like, “Oh, I see lines where nozzles are out. I see modeling in the solid colors. There’s a yellow polar bear. Polar bears aren’t supposed to be yellow. Was this on purpose? Can the machine not achieve the color I want? Why do I have samples that the solids aren’t solid? Which, by the way, when I was a print customer, that’s how I would judge every printer. I’m like, “Send me something solid color. That’s what I want to see.”
I think it’s a good idea that if they focus a little more on the samples and not the ones hanging on the walls, because usually those are the ones they’ve been carrying around for a while, but the ones that are the kind of the giveaways on the tables that people just –
[0:18:32] NT: Know your audience. And know it’s important. I mean, different than you’re walking around noticing and all that. Just like you, people –
[0:18:39] DC: I mean, categorize them for designers, for marketers, for technical people. If you want to know about the color calibration on the back of that sample’s information or a QR code that leads to everything about their color creation tools. Okay, go ahead, Noel.
[0:18:56] NT: Because you don’t know who’s there, right? You got David and I are walking through. I pick it up. I don’t give a rat’s you know what, who designed it, or what it’s about, or what you’re trying to get across. I look and see what was done, and I want to see was this done correctly in my mind. Or did they optimize whatever processes they used? Did they examine subjects? But we’re all different, right?
[0:19:17] DC: Yes. You’re not even going to buy the equipment. You’re looking at it as to do I want to use this?
[0:19:23] NT: But think about that. There’s probably seven or eight different kinds of people, right? So you got to tick off all the boxes. If you’re going to make it, make it right. But also, then attract the people who are the customer who do care about the design, and it resonates with them.
[0:19:38] DC: Okay.
[BREAK]
[0:19:39] DC: Get ready to turn up the volume on print. PrintFM is a global internet radio station dedicated exclusively to print and graphic communications, accessible around the clock in every time zone. No more searching across channels and apps. PrintFM brings relevant topical programming from Print Media Centr, Girls Who Print, and an array of industry contributors who bring their own perspectives, guests, and conversations to the mix. PrintFM also broadcasts from industry events, with live shows being scheduled throughout the year. Visit printfm.com to explore our daily programming, event schedules, and opportunities to share your content or sponsor our shows. Expert discussions, real-world insight, and industry voices are just a click away. Listen long and prosper.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:20:38] DC: So, we covered this a little, but I want to drill down a little deeper because I know we’ve spoken about this a million times working in advertising agency. I had my dream drawer of the samples that one day, one day we will find the client with the budget or we will find somebody who’s willing to do something a little crazy. What makes you guys save your samples? Save samples?
[0:21:06] NT: For me, it’s something maybe that I have not seen before, or how they used an embellishment, or what type of paper they’re using on it. And I’ll go back to design as well. I want to pick something up and I want to feel the substance. I want to feel something that’s substantial. I want that to inspire me that I remembered what this piece is. How would I utilize it? Or even how would I try to enhance it? What would I do if it’s different?
But if it stops me and I have it in my hand, my hand, I’m not talking about maybe the average consumer or so, then they’ve reached the mark of what they wanted to do. And it could be something that’s really simple and really tasteful. And looking at that, does it speak to me? What does it say? Is it telling me about the culture of this business? Is it telling me that they stopped and they took the time? Is it telling me that they didn’t overproduce and they were going more for quality? And that’s rare.
I mean, the places that I look at are book conventions and what they’re doing that is a little bit different. Because we’ve always seen book jackets, and we’ve seen covers, and we know that they can do a gloss on it. But what is in there that’s different? And you begin to remember that.
But the other thing is that if you can then take it a step further, if you say, “I really like this,” because it’s obviously in your hand and you’re holding it, “but this is what I would do that’s different.” Well, then you just created for the next person who is going to take it and say, “Wow, this really has hit the mark, my mark.” And what are they going to do with it?
To me, once you’ve achieved that, it doesn’t matter of the written literature on the inside of that brochure. You stop them with graphic. We’re graphic arts. We should be one of the most polished industries out there because this is what we do, not just something for someone to come by and grab and get away with it, or pull out last year’s brochure and put it out there cuz you happen to have a half a box left of it. I mean, that’s overload. And they’ve seen it before.
[0:23:39] DC: David, do printers send you samples of their work to try to get you to work with them?
[0:23:43] DD: The answer is no.
[0:23:45] DC: Interesting.
[0:23:46] DD: I seek out who has that equipment, and then I put them through the ringer.
[0:23:53] DC: Okay. That’s going to be our next question. So, hold on to that one.
[0:23:54] DD: Yeah. I’ll stop there. Yeah.
[0:23:56] DC: Okay. So, nobody’s like, “Hey, I’ve seen your website. And we do all the work you do. And here’s some information, and we’d love to have a chat with you.” Nobody. Nobody does that.
[0:24:08] DD: You know what? With LinkedIn, and the social medias, and how they try to get in touch with you, if somebody wrote something personal, like, “I was on your website, and I saw the piece that you did for Tiffany.” That is doing a little bit of homework. And that’s telling me that they took the time, and they want to do business with me. But if it’s an overall cover letter, which is BS, I’m not going to stop –
[0:24:37] DC: And just a standard sample pack number 23 instead of the five things or two things that would totally resonate with you. We are on the same –
[0:24:46] DD: Well, that’s when I used to go up to see a client, I brought up bags of stuff. And I put it all out and I talked about each one. But now I just bring up four or five things and I put them out, and they talk about it. So that way I know that they’re engaged.
[0:25:04] DC: Yeah, because you’re not overwhelming them like Noel said before. Okay, Noel, what makes you keep a print sample?
[0:25:11] NT: And I call that my cool S pile. And I will admit that I got rid of it. But about 6 years ago, I still had a 55-foot tractor trailer with 23 skids of cool stuff that I made and other people made. But I look for something that’s outside the box that’s different from my go-to. Because here’s the thinking. In my world, I think I’m an expert at what I do, but I’m a Ray Kroc guy, right? Which is the guy who did McDonald’s. You want to do four things 4,000 times. That’s why my stuff is consistently beautiful. Not 4,000 things four times because that’s a mad scientist, right? Or an artist.
When I look at something that I see, I might look at it and go, “Wow.” I get into a thing where I hate coated paper. I hate smooth paper. I hate white paper. And then, all a sudden, I’m going through something going, “Yeah, that’s it. Cream paper. They’re copying me.” And then I go three pages and there’s a piece of chrome coat with an image half on one page and half on the other. I go, “Ah, I love that.”
It’s having to be able to look at it. It’s like you have your head down doing what you do. But I do try to make time. And those are the things that make my cool you know what pile. They’re not always things I did. Sometimes they are. They’re things that I was asked to do that I like about it. And usually it’s one component or one thing I like about it. I’m a book guy, so it might be the dust jacket. It might be the way they handle the division of chapters. And it would be with different processes and things like that. But I like when people do things that think differently.
I find I think I know everything there is to know about print. But when I talk to young people, they think differently. They look at a machine. When I take designers through a plant, they look and they go, “Oh, now I get it.” Which is the best thing you can do because then they get it, right? Sit them with the guy who opens their files. They’re like, “Oh, my files must stink. I didn’t know.” I go, “Yeah, well, you don’t listen.” But then they walk by a machine and they go, “So could I?” And that’s where great ideas come from. Because I’m not thinking, “Could I?” I’m thinking, “This is what this machine does. This is what I want to do with it.” So, I think that that’s important to keep an eye open and see things you admire.
And it’s things that they were used differently, right? I mean, I think I can do most processes really well, but I might not think about putting a couple together in the same thing or doing the opposite of something. Just a real fast, I’m doing a book right now, a 300-page book, and it’s a casebound book. It’s got dividers in it. It’s gorgeous. And the paper’s heavy throughout the book. And then we got dividers. They go, “Well, what do you want to do? They’re solids.” And they go, “I think the dividers should be like really light.” That’s like counterintuitive. It’s the other way around, right? Kind of basic and the dividers are heavy. That kind of thing. And I go, “Let’s try it.” And you try it.
Yeah, the answer is just to see the way someone else does what you would do perhaps differently because of the way they see it. And not ignore it and not go, “That’s stupid. I don’t do that.” You want to go, “I don’t do that, but I like that. What’s up with that?”
[0:28:15] DC: Yeah. The things I’ve been collecting recently, I do actually get samples from printers and from people who have products. Yeah, I mean, not a ton of them, which is good because I don’t need a storage unit for all of that stuff. And I’m certainly not going to buy the equipment, but it’s good to see samples. But I have to say the most interesting things that I save these days are actually just naturally coming through my mailbox.
[0:28:41] NT: Really?
[0:28:42] DC: Yeah. I saw the coolest thing that I’ve actually saved. And I really want to write a post about it. And it’s nothing special at all. It’s just a regular postcard from Virgin. Virgin has cruises now. And instead of being addressed to the occupant at whatever my address is, or just going through a mailing list, so it doesn’t have anybody’s name on it or anything like that. It’s not personalized at all, but it’s addressed to future sailor.
And I was like, “That is genius.” Imagine future diner, future car owner. I’m just saying it totally took it away from being an experience to being an experience I could have as a future sailor. That caught my attention. I was like, “What is this? This is so cool.” And it turns out that it can’t go through. Because, of course, I investigated. Because I’m like, “Why have I never seen this before. Ever. Never.” It’s either my name or no name because it’s going through some post office thing.
But apparently there’s no deal for that. Somebody has a list, and they send it out regular first class or whatever they get with their mingling or whatever than that. But it’s nothing special about it. But what was special about it was how it immediately stopped me in my tracks to figure out what it was. I mean, Virgin’s cool. Every once in a while, Delta and Virgin are partners. So, I end up on a Virgin plane. Hello. I would live on the Virgin plane if I could.
[BREAK]
[0:30:29] DD: Are you a frustrated creative and want a print partner that takes an artisan approach? Do you want to be inspired with techniques that will enhance your next printed or packaging production? Or are you a printer that has unique abilities and need a liaison to enhance your exposure? I’m David Drucker, owner of highresolution printing. I am an independent creative consultant with access to every printing technology out there.
I work hand in hand with creatives and printers, creating projects that are complex, and require meticulous detail, and precision, from concept to completion. Want to see what I mean? Go to guruofprinting.com and get inspired.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:31:12] DC: Okay, last question. Perhaps the most important, especially for designers and marketing people out there. You see something, whether you’re at a show, or you’re at an event, or you’re at somebody’s business, whatever it might be, you see something and you’re fascinated by it. Recently, remember I was fascinated by the envelopes that went all the way down. I think you told me they were called the European flap, because I didn’t know.
[0:31:37] NT: Euroflap. Just liner.
[0:31:39] DC: Well, whatever it is, I was fascinated by it because I hadn’t seen one or at least coming through my mailbox, or the mailers now that have like that extension on it. Just something little. You’re fascinated by something like that, or you’re fascinated by you went to a trade show and you see that the manufacturer has given you an ecosystem of everything you could do with their equipment and you want to get on that. How do you as creative print strategists – you are brokers in a little way. I hope that that does not put you into a different lane or have people think of you in that lane. Because a lot of times brokers are thought of as used car salesman, but that is not you guys at all. But you don’t have your own equipment. You work with your partners who have the equipment. How do you find reliable resources for execution when none of the printers you know or work with have that equipment already? Noel?
[0:32:35] NT: Referrals, referrals, referrals.
[0:32:37] DC: Who do you ask? The manufacturers?
[0:32:39] NT: Someone I trust. David and I ask each other questions. He asks me questions I can’t always help. If it’s something you haven’t done, you call or ask somebody whose opinion you trust. Or somebody you already have trusted for 30 years and you’ve worked with and they go, “Oh, you know what? I know what you’re talking about. We’ve had that need. And we go to –” it’s no different than how people get hired today. Right? You can send in a million resumes and never hear anything. But we all like to talk to each other, “Hey, do you know somebody?” If I recommend somebody and go, “Hey, you’re not going to find out in three months they’re a jerk.” You know what I mean? No one sits there and goes, “Oh, yeah. Yeah.” And he goes, “They’re the perfect candidate.” And then they go, “Oh, by the way, you won’t like me in 6 months.” They don’t say that in an interview. It’s the same thing with the printers and the guys, “Oh, I got the wama jama 7000. I can do – Yeah, we do.” Then you start working with them and you go, “They don’t work like I do.”
We have, and I’m sure David does, too, an exacting process for making things. And it doesn’t matter what you’re making or how you’re making it. It is always my network. Who do you know? I need somebody. I mean, I did it. I’ve done it with things that are outside my reach lately more than ever I’ve had to do. I mean, I’m making coins. They’re commemorable coins. But I’m talking about thousands and thousands for one of the biggest company, and really critical and crazy.
The problem is I start making calls, “Oh, you have a boy scout troop, you’re making –” They go, “No, no, no.” Same thing. I got someone who it was so removed who got someone else, right? And I didn’t end up using them. But David found someone that was amazing with metal. And I, at one point, needed something, and I didn’t even want to call them. And I talked to David. And David explained because he had already done some of his own due diligence because he couldn’t find anybody and he finally did.
It’s really for me not that they’re not good if you just talk to anybody or believe an ad. It’s advertising. For me, it’s about the people, about the way they go about it. Do they share the passion for what they do? Do they go about their due diligence the same way people like David and I do? I don’t want to be sold, because it’s very easy to sell me. And then I’m like, “What the?” Then I get grouchy.
So, I want to find the right attitude, “Oh. And by the way, you got that equipment. You know how to do things the right way.” Then I’m only guessing that you’re good at that specialty I don’t know about. That’s the only thing. And that happens a lot more lately for me as stuff I’m learning more than I ever wanted to learn.
[0:35:16] DC: David?
[0:35:17] DD: very much what Noel said as far as referral. But what I’ll usually do is I’ll ask three people if they know of a referral. In that, if I get to speak with one of their referrals, usually from those three people, I’ll speak to a couple of other people. And in that conversation with whomever that is, if they’re understanding what I’m saying, and they can then add to that conversation that this maybe is the way to do it, and I had a different idea in my head of how we were going to construct it. But even if that person doesn’t know, I will ask them for a referral.
You could very easily through three people speak to nine different companies. And in doing that, that also helps me in direction. That’s to me the majority of work in finding the right resource is having those conversations. Like Noel said, you get somebody on, and they start talking about their sales. And yeah, they do work for these people or that people. When you begin to speak to the right people, you notice the craftsmanship of that person, and then you get the knowledge of the direction to go into. And it might take you a little more time, but don’t be bashful in doing that. Dig.
I mean, I know that if I ask you, Deborah, or I ask Noel, it’s going to put me in a direction, in the right direction. And I have to ask the right questions. And sometimes the things that I say will help them, and it’ll just lead them into the right direction. I mean, come on. As business owners, we’re very cautious about money, and our thought process goes there. But when you can break it down and have a really good conversation and really learn about that person, then that person’s going to say, “When that job comes in, I’m going to put my focus on it.” And if not, maybe they’re the ones that say, “I’m going to look into that a little bit more, and then I’ll give you a call back.” And that way we’re helping each other out.
We’re not stuck. I mean, if your bottom line, your bottom line. And you’re going to try to get it on your equipment so you don’t have to do it. But if you have these avenues to go down, you can completely change. I’m going to tell you that I have gone down the path where a client has wanted something specific, and they have three other vendors, and they’re all quoting on something specific. But in my conversations in finding a new vendor, I might learn something. Turn around to my client and say, “Let’s do it this way.” I just changed the whole game. A matter of fact, I became the only one to bid on that because I’m the one who came up with that idea.
[0:38:09] DC: Yeah, there are other great resources which are industry organizations to call them up and ask them. If you see something specific and you’re trying to locate a partner to produce it or somebody who has that equipment so you could ask them questions about it, whatever it might be. If you’re dealing with vendors, all of the vendors have local salespeople. Find your local salesperson, tell them you just want to know who has the damn machine that you’re looking for.
Perhaps some of the trade printers have it already, and you can send some test work in. I don’t know actually know how trade printers work. Can you go there and like watch your – I’ve never worked with a trade printer.
[0:38:45] NT: Yeah. Why not?
[0:38:47] DC: Okay. That could be an interesting conversation. But yes, go to your network. And whatever you do, before you do it, bring this full circle, get samples. Make sure that you get samples. And if that company has not invested in presenting themselves and their equipment in the best light possible, I would say run like hell, because you’re rolling the dice on whether they’re going – if they don’t paying attention to their own marketing, are they going to pay attention to yours? Or I guess you can say the cobbler’s kids have no shoes or whatever it is. They don’t invest in their own samples because they’re doing work for other people, making it the best it can be. I think those two things have to always be together.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Thanks to everybody who listened to the podcast. You can connect with David and Noel in the links in the show notes. And start sending them some samples, people. Well, not Noel, because he got rid of his tractor-trailer of samples. But send them to David. I’m sure his wife Judith, will be thrilled to have samples in the house.
Until next time, everybody, make it with print long and prosper.
Thanks for listening to Podcasts From the Printerverse. Please subscribe, click some stars, and leave us a review. Connect with us through printmediacentr.com. We’d love to hear your feedback on our shows and topics that are of interest for future broadcasts. Until next time, thanks for joining us. Print long and prosper.
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